MGTD Kit car suspension

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This topic contains 197 replies, has 36 voices, and was last updated by  edsnova 8 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 198 total)
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  • #236203

    washington-will
    Participant

    @washington-will

    Rollie,
     If you have time and a welder, I purchased the adjusters only (2) one for each beam from BOW WOW in Lynnwood washington. They were about $50 total A friend and I disassembled the beam per the instructions in this post and some others I found on line. Cut out a piece of each beam the width of the adjuster + one eighth inch and welded it back together. It was not that hard if you weld and we had it back together the same day. My problem was not only the ride but the front end started 4.5 inches above the tire and I was able to dial that way down it now not only rides better but it looks better too. I have airshocks on the back and still had clearence issues but lowering the front gave it a teeter-tawter effect and gave me the needed rear clearence as well. I also removed 4 of the narrow leafs. I know that time is money, but it saved me, I figure around $225 as an adjustable beam here in Washington was around $275. It was also an adventure I can add to the reconstruction portfollio.
    PS. If you decide to try this, the screw they mention lining up with the old one is the grub screw not the adjuster screw, I made that mistake and had to redo it, but both trys were completed in a day and she was back on the road that evening.

    Will

    #236204

    rollie
    Participant

    @rollie

    Thanks for the response, I haven’t done anything yet. Been pondering the better ride, handling, and more up suspension, vs. the $300 for the adj. beams and the fact I can go 65 mph actual, without the front end lifting and getting light. I have a welding shop nearby that has done some reall nice work, so your idea sounds really good. Thanks for taking the time to respond, i appreciate it.    Rollie

    #236205

    washington-will
    Participant

    @washington-will

    Rollie, Here is a link to some photos there are two that show the front end after adding the adjusters. Also it is hard to tell but in my gallery there are several photos of the white Migi before and after the adjusters were installed. You may be able to notice a big difference in ride height in the front. If you need any help talking you through it drop me a line.

    Will

    http://s823.photobucket.com/albums/zz152/washingtonwill/?new est=1

    #236206

    rollie
    Participant

    @rollie

    Thank you very much for the pictures. They are a big help. I will be away for Jan. and part of Feb. but will get into this when I return. This sounds like a much better way @ $50 than $300. I likely wouldn’t do it @ $300. Thanks,    Rollie

    #236207

    chuckles
    Participant

    @chuckles

    Hi Fellow tdreplica guys,

    I just spent hours seaching for shorter shocks for my front end. Mine are 14.125 inches compressed and 16.750 extended 2.625 travel.

    I only have 1 inch of up travel and bottom out a lot. I don’t know what has been done to the car but it feels very softly sprung in the front, so I assume some leaves have been removed.

    It rides much better with no socks at all with the 4 inches of travel.

    I’m looking for a part no of a shorter shock, 9-10 inces compressed, that will fit the vw setup.

    Does anyone have a no???

     

    Thanks for any info

    Chuck

    MiGi 1600 twin port

    #236208

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    All this talk about shock issues confuses and frightens me. I’ve got an adjustable beam on the way from CA, so I hope I can get some input on this. Please correct me if I’m wrong on the following:

    Basically, the adjustable beam leaves the car at exactly the same ride height as it had before, correct? You’re adjusting the spring rate–the tendency of the suspension to be able to actually move in response to bumps–but leaving the car’s at rest stance unchanged, correct?

    So the the shock absorbers already in use before the swap should work just fine after the installation of an adjustable beam. Yes?

    Which means that any shock absorber issues–bottoming out, too short travel, etc.–encountered after the installation of the adjustable beam would be the result of changing the shock absorbers? Not because of the new adjustable beam. Is this the experience you all have had?

    Like I say, I’m about to tackle this job. Anyone who has done it successfully, please chime in and set me straight.

    #236209

    chuckles
    Participant

    @chuckles

    Hi Ed

    My problem was that the shocks were too long limiting the travel of the wheels upward when I hit a bump, llike no spring at all!

    The part that bothers me is that my shock is exactly what monroe calls out for for a 74 bettle. There is only 2.6 inchs of travel in this shock and this must be within the total travel range and the ride hight idealy is in the middle of the shock travel.

    You should be able to center your supension with the adjustable beam but your shocks must fall between the limits of the ball joints, which limit your travel if you have no shocks at all. the off-road boys start with finding this ball joint center. they build in stops to prevent damage to balls or shocks which should not be limiting the travel in either direction. 

    Thanks

    #236210

    washington-will
    Participant

    @washington-will

    Ed,
     The body height does change, if you can picture the  end of the beam as the face of the clock and the arms as its hands as you lower the adjustment on the beam you move the arms counter clock wise. Which basically lowered the body down closer to the tire and closer to the center of the wheel well or further to the rear where it had been slightly forward of center and considerably higher before. I hope this make sense. it does make the shock a bit closer to the top of its travel or more extended but not by a whole lot. 

    #236211

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Thanks Will. I think I understand. I gathered from your posts that your previous ride height was too high. Mine’s just about right, but it got that way via the cut-and-turn method Pink derides.

    As I understand it, Pink is saying that the cut-and-turned beam lowers the ride height–that is, turns the arms clockwise–while leaving the springs too stiff for the much-lightened load they carry. The adjustable beam allows one to soften the spring rate with or without changing the ride height. Since I don’t want to change my ride height, I’m thinking my existing shocks should be fine. With the new beam and minus four or five of the small leaves, the torsion arms ought to end up at exactly the same angle they’re at now.

    But since I am inexperienced and very rusty concerning the limited experience I do have, I ask.

    I guess it doesn’t much matter. The beam will come, I’ll pull my front suspension apart, and when it’s all back together, then I’ll find out if I need new and different parts.

    I’ve already relearned the old adage: there’s no such thing as a ‘bolt-on.’

    I passed on the narrowed beam, so worst that could happen is I’ll have to reinstall the leaves in the cut beam and go back to the way it is now.

    #236212

    chuckles
    Participant

    @chuckles

    cip1.com has a shorter shock which allows you more upward suspension travel. Its 10 inches compressed which should stop you from scraping the fender and give you more travel and better ride. You can add rubber bottoming blocks on the shock if your fenders scrape on big bumps. These blocks come with the monroematic shocks. I could not find the shorter shock in the monroe table so gave up and bought the EMPI short shoccks from cip1

    Chuck

    #236213

    pmossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Hi guys,

    The adjustable beam is used to RAISE the ride height.

    When you do this right, you remove leaves from the torsion tubes, softening the front suspension for a better ride.

    The softer suspension, with the same weight on it, will result in the front end settling down a bit.

    The adjustable beam is used to bring the ride height back to where it should be.

    Paul Mossberg
    1982 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to http://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #236214

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Ah, Chuck, thanks for the specs, and the tip. Please let us know how those work. I searched the forum and came up with this info, from 2008 thread here.

    (from Pink MG)
    “. . . Check out http://www.rockauto.com Search for Monroe p/n 31538 and click on More Info. It gives the specs of the shock. I order from Rock Auto all the time.”

    Mr. Bill?s answer:

    “The Monroe p/n 31538 appears to be the correct length (I left the measurements with the parts supplier so I will need to remeasure) but it is a ‘gas’ and not an ‘oil’ filled shock.”

    I believe these worked, according to Bill’s subsequent reports.

    For myself, I think I probably won’t need new shocks. Crossing the fingers now, knocking on head.

    #236215

    chuckles
    Participant

    @chuckles

    Hi Ed

    When I first got my td I was disappointed in the hard ride. It felt like the suspension was too stiff. I talked to people about softening the ride by reducing the spring rate. This forum offered up a lot of good ideas. I let some air out of the front tires(now 15#) and then the rear(25 #). This helped. then I crawled under the car and bouced it up and down. To my surprise, it only had 1″ of travel before it stopped solid. It was the shocks bottoming out. I removed the bootom of the shock and I then had 4″ of travel.  took the car for a ride and was amazed at the smoothness of the ride! No more bottoming out!  I measured the shock compressed lenght and found it to be about 14 ” I thought this must be the wrong shock so I looked up the specs on the monroe 31538 monroematic and the comp lenght was 14.1 inch.  I did some reading on the thesamba.com site about vw suspension and found that They seem to know what they are talking about. They don’t advise using the shock or the travel of the ball joint to be the “stop” or bottoming block(or the full extension stop) They weld in a hook to stop the suspension. You might just scan through their forum to get some ideas of your own. I like the ride height and softness or rate of my springs. and didn’t want to go through the work and expense of changing the whole front axel assy just to get the ride height to match my shocks, so I opted for shorter shocks with bumper stops to give me the travel I need to stop bottoming out. I’ll let you know how it works out as soon as the shocks get here. These are not air charged shocks.

    Thanks

    Chuck

    #236216

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Wow, Chuck, interesting! I’ve not even driven Bridget enough to know if she rides too hard; right now I’m just doing what Pink advises–he makes a good case–but I’ll be very interested to hear how your deal works out.

    I’m hoping this torsion beam job won’t take me the rest of my life, but
    pretty sure it won’t. I’m also at a stage in my life when I’m less
    tolerant of hard riding automobiles. My fiancee, meanwhile, is terrified of any
    vehicle not equipped with airbags.

    For point of comparison, my first car was a ’67 Nova SS, and I modded the suspension to within an inch of its life (sway bars, urethane bushings, cut down coils, disc brakes, eccentric cam “lock out” kit, etc. etc.). The ride ended up hard and totally unsafe–though arguably not quite as unsafe as a stock ’67 Nova!

    #236217

    chuckles
    Participant

    @chuckles

    Hi ed

    My fiancee took one token ride in the TD. Not her cup of tea!

    One other thing, the clearance between body and the tie rods is very close. Make sure you cut away any excess fiberglass above the tie rods, Run the wheels ful left to full right and note close clearance areas.

    thanks

    Chuck

    #236218

    pmossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Hmmm…

    Chuckles, tell your fiancee to try again!

    Way back in 1989, my wife and I used my Duchess as our “Wedding Car”.

    Nov 24 1989, the Friday after Thanksgiving. It snowed a half a foot on Thanksgiving day in New Jersey, first Thanksgiving snow in 50 years. My wife’s gown had a low cut back…meaning her back against the cold vinyl.

    We had a blast!

     

    Paul Mossberg
    1982 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to http://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #236219

    chuckles
    Participant

    @chuckles

    I put my new shorter oil filled shocks from Cip1 on my MiGi saturday. What a difference! The car now soaks up the bumps instead of magnifying them!

    I now have about 3 inches of travel which seems adequate for most roads I drive on.

    BTW  Is the radiator shell just supposed to sit on top of the front axel? seems like a good place for a rubber pad.

    #236220

    pmossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Hi chuckles,

    What manufacturer TD do you have?

    On my Duchess, the grill attaches to the front of the bodywork and comes no where near touching the axle.

    Also…when you get a chance, please click the link inmy signature to go to the registry thread and post your owner and car info! Thanks

     

    Paul Mossberg
    1982 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to http://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #236221

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt


    Which VW-based kits do NOT use the VW’s front axle beam? 

     

    I’ve seen Youtube videos of at least one kit (manufacturer unknown) that used only coil-over shocks on their own front A-arm setup.  I MUCH prefer the VW torsion bar setup for availability of parts, ability to “tune it,” aftermarket disc brakes, etc…

     
     

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236222

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Kent, I have not seen a VW Daytona replica that is not VW front also.  However, the body on a Daytona is set back about 2″ further than on some other kits which makes access to the rear adjustment almost impossible (short of removing body parts).  This can be seen by the addition of a bump on the aftermost part of the running boards on the Daytona TDs.  I’ll let some of the old timers comment on other kits.  Since these are kits, and we have some from scratch builders, I’m not sure that there is any hard fast rule of what you are going to get when you buy one of these TDs.  

    Welcome to our most excellent club where we solve (or enjoy trying) all TD problems and questions.   
    #236223

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt


    Here’s the Youtube video where the guy first saw the car for sale.  As I watched it again, he identified it as a London Roader – duh!  I just want to make sure I avoid that in my shopping…

     
     
    He has later vids where he’s trying to deal with a sagging front end, and replacing the coil-over shocks…
     
     

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236224

    larry-murphy
    Participant

    @larry-murphy

     Kent, Welcome to the forum. London Roadster is the only manufacturor that used the coil over suspension to the best of my knowledge. They were sold as completed cars. Some  LRs used  the VW pan and suspension while some were built on a custom chassis with coilover suspension  front and rear. I think all of them used  Daytona MiGi body kits regardless of the chassis and suspension.Both types are owned by members here on rhe forum.

    #236225

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt


    Thanks!  I wouldn’t be opposed to a Ford-based kit, but I’d prefer VW-based.  I’ve also owned several Pintos over the years, but actually far preferred the 2000cc German engines to the 2.3 liter American ones that are now far more common.  Ironically when Ford went to the 2300, the HP dropped from 100 HP for the German higher-compression engine, to 76 HP for the 300 cc larger American “smog-spec” engine….

     
    I’ll make sure to avoid looking at the London Roadster.  I think I may have located an Allison VW-based one — based on pics — if I can get the current owner to respond.  It looks like a nice starting point…

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236226

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    Larry Murphy wrote:
      London Roadster is the only manufacturor that used the coil over suspension to the best of my knowledge. They were sold as completed cars. Some  LRs used  the VW pan and suspension while some were built on a custom chassis with coilover suspension  front and rear. I think all of them used  Daytona MiGi body kits regardless of the chassis and suspension.Both types are owned by members here on rhe forum.

     

    Ran across this pic from a Craig’s List ad and thought I’d share it for posterity.  It shows the LR frame for a VW kit that didn’t use the VW floorpan. 

     

    KentT2013-03-04 12:51:11

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236227

    jebarry
    Participant

    @jebarry

    Thxz Kent and Larry good comments. that is pretty much what my chassis on my LR “OLIVE”looks like -but not that bad hahah

    Smile. I have a custom chassis and front end/suspension etc . I believe a guy named Mustie posted some You Tube videos on the LR with independent suspension and custom chassis ..there is good and bad points to the LR .. the good for me is “factory built”

    me being unaware of the different kits fo r the MG TD replica’s when I bought the LR I stand on “it is what it is”.Tongue

    the best part of the LR is that mine was factory built so there weren’t any corners cut(per say) or a novice mechanic /builder putting it together.

    I have seen a lot of contradictory statements here on this forum . so I am not sure what to believe here since I dont know anything about any of the pro’s and cons of the kits …

    so with that I am going out in our 50 degrees weather and do some errands with mah girl Pudge before the nasty gale force weather settles in here

    and enjoy my MG TD til the suspension falls apart!

    thxz

    jebarry2013-03-04 15:28:29

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