MGTD Kit car suspension

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This topic contains 197 replies, has 36 voices, and was last updated by  edsnova 8 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 198 total)
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  • #236228

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    jebarry wrote:
    Thxz Kent and Larry  thats is  pretty much  what  my  chassis  on my  LR “OLIVE”looks like but  not  that  bad  hahah

    Doubt you have such clear view of the ground with Olive…Big smile

    Thought this pic of that rusty frame gave good “aerial” view of both the frame and without a floorboard the intersection of frame and body panels, etc.

    KentT2013-03-04 15:27:31

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236229

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    That LR rigs looks like it could be a lot stronger than a VW pan.

    #236230

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    edsnova wrote:
    That LR rigs looks like it could be a lot stronger than a VW pan.

    Yep, both the ones on my short list have had tubular frames put underneath the VW pan to strengthen them.  I have “first dibs” on the one in PA, waiting on him to take more pics and send a complete inventory of what’s there and uninstalled (side curtains, for example???).  I’ve located another, on an IRS pan, with similar reinforcement added though the body is in much worse condition… which is my “fall-back” position unless I should be lucky enough to stumble onto some deal like the guy got on eBay last night with a buy-it-now in 8 minutes time…

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236231

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    You guys are starting to make me worry.  Do I need to be concerned about my VW pan/frams?  I have not noticed much flexing?  Not as much as in a Morris TD?

    #236232

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    Royal wrote:
    You guys are starting to make me worry.  Do I need to be concerned about my VW pan/frams?  I have not noticed much flexing?  Not as much as in a Morris TD?

    Not necessarily – as long as you have a good solid, original pan underneath it to begin with, and don’t plan to drive it too hard, especially on rough roads.  After all, many people have many miles on these things without a reinforced frame underneath them…

     

    I’ve owned both a ’67 Bug convertible and a ’70 Ghia convertible, and both came from the factory with a boxed metal reinforcement that ran down the full length of the pan on each side underneath where the heater channels run.  Those bodies were quite a bit heavier, being all steel.  Both flexed quite a bit, especially when I put mildly built engines in them and started pushing them harder…

     

    That’s why I’m looking for a solid foundation — I hope to have a 1776 or something in it someday… I’m more concerned about solid handling than I am about cosmetics.  That’s also why IRS is an absolute necessity.  But that’s just me…

     

    If all you’re doing is cruising backroads or in town, rather than pushing it through the twisties, you’re likely just fine…

     

    You see, this place is less than an hour away, and I know I won’t be able to resist the temptation:

     


    KentT2013-03-04 22:18:56

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236233

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Yeah, but!!!   

    Tail of the Dragon, and Hawks Nest NY are both on my bucket list and I was not planning on taking my Rolls.  I’ve driven Hawks Nest many times in many of my sports cars and it’s an almost spiritual experience for me.  That and the 2 hour/60 mile “loop” around the Pepacton Reservoir, Downsville and Margaretville NY,  formed by NY 30/NYC #1/NYC#6.  This one is my own truly beautiful great great road with nothing but mountainous twisties and practically no traffic.   (I grew up not far from Hawks and the “loop”.)   NY really should plan a big sports car race around “Roy’s Loop” every year or so. Closing it and making it into a one-way counterclockwise loop would inconvenience maybe 6 commuters for a day.  😉
    That and I was planning on/hoping to run the autocross at Carlisle this year. 

    I had some hesitation because of my home-mounted wire wheels but, had not considered pan flex.  

    Royal2013-03-05 02:49:46

    #236234

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Roy. I did the autoX and my car is a pan with no reinforcements. I think I even beat somebody.

    So what if the pan flexes in the auto cross? So what if you loop it? There’s plenty of run-off room and you’re not likely to turn it over. (And if you break anything, we’ll help you fix it).

    It’ll handle as well as it handles and you’ll get an idea about its limits. That will make you better able to deal with it on a twisty road, when the time comes. Since you had seat time in the originals, you already know what driving a primitive suspension means.

    I’ve taken Bridget along some wooded stream roads and even reeled in a couple Brit sports cars in my day. As you know, you don’t have to be going dangerously fast to have a good time.

    #236235

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    “Roy. I did the autoX and my car is a pan with no reinforcements. I think I even beat somebody.”

    Ed, thanks for the words of encouragement.  I heard that they are not going to allow the Double=decker city bus in the autocross competition this year. 😆 

    “So what if the pan flexes in the auto cross? So what if you loop it? There’s plenty of run-off room and you’re not likely to turn it over. (And if you break anything, we’ll help you fix it).”

    I’ll bring my tow bar, just in case.  
    “I’ve taken Bridget along some wooded stream roads and even reeled in a couple Brit sports cars in my day.”
    45 years ago, I was test driving a XKE on a country road.  In my rear view mirror was an MGB desperately trying to keep up with me.  Finally I slowed down enough to notice that the MGB had a funny flashing light in it’s windscreen.    Not really so funny after all, – I got my first speeding ticket while test driving, on a NY country road, by a cop driving a MGB.  Not fair!! 

    “you don’t have to be going dangerously fast to have a good time”
    And you are absolutely right about that!  I had some pretty tense moments at 25mph on “Roy’s Loop” with bias ply tires in my MGTF-1500.  In fact it was a lot more fun than radials on my 911s at 45mph.  The lack of good roads to exercise a sporty machine is one of the very few reasons that I am seriously considering, at 72, moving from New Bern, NC to the mountains again.  The country here is so flat you can see your dog run away for 2 days.  

    Are you planning on running the autocross again?  
    I would really like to drive a couple of the TD’s at the show (not in the autoX), – just to get an idea of what’s right/wrong with mine.  
    #236236

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    Royal wrote:
    The lack of good roads to exercise a sporty machine is one of the very few reasons that I am seriously considering, at 72, moving from New Bern, NC to the mountains again.  The country here is so flat you can see your dog run away for 2 days.  

     

    Do I hear Western NC calling you?  As you likely know, if you want city & culture, Asheville is hard to beat… offers easy access to both the Smokies, Blue Ridge and Black Mountains…

     

    I prefer Hendersonville, personally.  Murphy would be nice, but it’s a bit secluded when it comes to medical care, shopping and amenities…

     

    I have two kids and their families in the Charlotte area, but chose to come back home to the other side of the mountains, where I was born rather than Western NC closer to them…

     

    I’m less than 10 minutes from my remaining siblings, and about 20 minutes or so from the GSM National Park.  These country roads through the hills and mountains are why I want a “driver” and not a “show car”…

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236237

    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

    I’m looking forward to some competition this year. I wonder which one of you will come closer.

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #236238

    schu
    Participant

    @schu

    Hopefully me – I need to find a open park and ride lot and start practicing.

    #236239

    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

    Set up an account here…you will find something in your area.

     

    practice, practice, practice…

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #236240

    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

     

    Special Helmet Sale

    by Perry

    Need a helmet for the upcoming 2013 Season.

    From my Sponsor Bob at Driving Impressions. Mention AutoX4u..

    ZAMP JA1 open face helmet    white or matte black     SA2010    $126 delivered!       1-800-275-4667    http://www.teamdi.com

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #236241

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Bill, I am considering entering (for practice) an AutoX in Pittsboro NC on 30 March.  I can’t figure out what class I would be in.  How does one go about this?  

    #236242

    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

    sorry to post this more than once, it looked as though it didnt go at all.

     

    I started a thread for AutoX

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #236243

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    I just found this thread on a different site, written by a guy who road races a Karmann Ghia.  Some great VW chassis tuning, handling and braking info…

     

    KentT2013-05-21 23:41:51

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236244

    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

    There is a wealth of information contained there.
    Go to it, guys.

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #236245

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Looks like good advice but be careful with urethane steering couplers. The common “red” ones sold by VW outfitters tend to disintegrate, I am told.

    On front camber, I’ve been a half degree negative since installing the adjustable beam two years ago. Stock specs call for straight up but I thought I should match the squat in the rear 🙂 and my alignment guy said OK. These racing guys say another half degree would be good for narrow tires like mine, but you guys running 185-195-205(? Schu?) tires should stick with a half degree.
    edsnova2013-05-22 07:31:18

    #236246

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    Question for you guys running VW torsion-bar front suspensions…

    Are you running shorter front shocks designed for lowered VWs, or stock length.  Mine has stock shocks on it, and they’re shot, as is the steering damper.  The steering damper slides like a trombone, and the shocks aren’t much better…
    I already have the replacement steering damper on it, and am considering replacing the shocks while I’m at it.  I know that I don’t want to use heavy-duty shocks (like KYB Gas-Adjust or Bilsteins, but I was wondering about length.
    AFAIK, mine was lowered by cutting and rotating the bottom beam (as described in the kit manuals) and likely has all the leaves still in the torsion bars…
    Thanks! 

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236247

    pmossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Stock shocks on my Duchess.

     

    All the VW leaves are in place.

    Beam was not cut/turned.

    Paul Mossberg
    1982 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to http://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #236248

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    #236249

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Kent: On my Fiberfab the front beam is all stock. Only change I made was to remove the 6 narrow leaves in the top and bottom tubes. Shocks for a 71 standard Beetle all around from NAPA.

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #236250

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    I guess I should add that my suspension is exactly like newkitman’s.  No small torsion leaves.  Stock shocks.  It did drop the front end about 1-1/2 inches but the improvement in ride and handling went from scary poor to very good.  The ride was previously so harsh that it would understeer a lot. Removing the leaves not only corrected that but now it is a much more comfortable ride, and it put the shocks to operating in the range where they were supposed to be

    #236251

    kentt
    Participant

    @kentt

    Roy, I’d seen and participated in that topic, so there were no surprises there…

    But, there seems to be a “mixed-bag” when it comes to shock lengths… as the replies here and there  indicate.  Some run stock length shocks, some run shorter ones.  I think the “answer” may depend on the lowering method used.

    Since mine was lowered by rotating the lower beam, IMO that will have essentially shortened the available travel – no way around that.  The distance between the lower arm and the upper arm with no load has been shortened.  (The front end was preloaded to establish the location of the lower beam, before welding back up.)  So, to avoid bottoming out, and let the suspension (though perhaps too stiff due to lowering method) still work, I think I should go to the shorter length.  
    If an alternate lowering method was used, that didn’t change this relationship of lower to upper arm, then I think stock length may be fine.   Then again, a lot of folks use dropped spindles on the front of  VW Beetles which doesn’t change the torsion arms, leaves, or their relationship in any way — yet they still recommend the use of shorter shocks…

    I think I need shorter shocks and was hoping to confirm this understanding or get any misunderstanding corrected…

    KentT2013-05-30 16:24:18

    Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
    Slowly coming back from the ashes...

    #236252

    royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Kent,  I’m sorry, I guess I am confused.  Why not take off a shock, measure between the mounts and see if your shock (at mid stroke) is about that measurement?  It’s what I have always done.  Is this wrong?  

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