Timing Issue

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  scubasteve 6 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #303162

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Well tried to time the engine today. Something just didn’t look right but everything was connected. Engine just wouldn’t start. So off came the distributor and recheck. The distributor shaft was rubbing the electronic ignition module (Campfire) at the high point. So off with the ignition module and back to the points and condenser. Started to install the distributor and noticed the offset of the distributor shaft was out. Remember when I said something just didn’t look right. So I checked two different manuals. And lo and behold their instructions were different. One said the skinny part of the offset faced the flywheel and the other said the fat part of the offset faced the flywheel. So which is correct?

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #303167

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Offset to the distributor shaft?

    I’m not sure what that is, Allen. Seems we have another thread where pics would help.

    #303168

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Thanks Ed. I’ll take a pic when I come back from my doc visit and post it. I’pretty sure I’m off 180 degrees off on the distributor shaft.

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #303169

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Even better. Here’s what the manual shows. My offset is in the opposite direction. But I have another manual that says the way I have it is correct.

    distributor_alignment.jpg

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #303170

    toller
    Participant

    @toller

    Allen
    You have to upload the pic to your media file I order for the rest of us to see what you are talking about. Think Paul or Ed posted instructions in the How to section of the site

    David B Dixon
    Port Perry ON CA
    Sabine

    #303171

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    dang. Back to the “how do I post a photo” rag. Sorry Allen.

    I understand what it means to have the disty in backwards, out 180 degrees. So if that’s what you’re talking about, easy fix. Try it one way. She no a-start, pull it out, turn it 180, and try it again….

     

    Good luck!

    #303174

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Yesterday afternoon I got the final release from the doc on my shoulder replacement with the only restriction not to bench press “more than 100 pounds.” He’s a funny guy! So back to Moneypenny full time now. Pulled the fuel pump and mount yesterday when I got home from the doc. The plan is to use my distributor shaft puller and while rotating the crank back and forth a little, ease the shaft out about 1/2 inch, turn it 180 degrees and reseat the distributor shaft. After I install the fuel pump, I’ll hook her up and see how she runs.

    In the for what its worth department, I removed the Compufire electronic module and reinstalled the points and condenser. My reason was the high part of the lobes on the distributor shaft were rubbing the ignition module. I suppose I could file away some of the module to get the needed clearance but I think I’ll take the kit back and purchase one made for a vacuum advance dizzy. There are two types of electronic ignition kits…one for mechanical advance and one for vacuum advance. Evidently I have the one for the mechanical (009) advance distributor.

    When I get a little more time to practice posting photos, I’ll get some practice and then post a few photos. Thanks everyone.

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #303175

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Well I’ve been at it for 2 hours and so far I have gotten the distributer shaft up out of the hole 1/8 inch. Need it up 1/2 inch minimum to turn the shaft. Better if I can get it out all the way and inspect it. If I have to pull the engine to fix it……I’M DONE. The whole kit and caboodle gone. This Fiberfab has been messing with me since Ive had it and I’m about to the point where I’VE HAD IT!

    The only other thing I can think of is to take the gear off the dizzy and turn it 180 and reinstall it. Thoughts ladies and gentlemen!

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #303176

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Hard to eat crow but I’m eating it. Problem getting the dizzy shaft out was the tool. It wasn’t sitting in the top of the shaft enough. Took a break and tried again and out it came. Got her all back together and there was no Wveem. That’s because of the TD style muffler. Sounds nice. I’ll give her a good break-in run tomorrow. Sorry about my frustration but  thanks for letting me vent. And now its almost beer thirty. 🙂

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  newkitman.

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #303178

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Glad you got it sorted, Allen. Been there.

    #303179

    schu
    Participant

    @schu

    Allen,

    Glad you got it – you will laugh about it – some day…

    I had the same problem so just left the dizzy and reversed the wires – still that way today 10 plus years so far – should have suggested it before you had your meltdown – sorry about that – I have been there many times as well.

    #303189

    scubasteve
    Participant

    @scubasteve

    I’ve been going through very similar agony myself in the last few days. My local VW mechanic has been suggesting for the last few months I should change from the old style points to electronic ignition. I purchased a total ignition overhaul kit; coil, distributor cap, rotor, wires, plugs AND  Compu-tronix (formerly Pertronix)electronic ignition module from California/JBugs.

    First part was easy as pie changing old coil, plugs, wires, etc.. After watching Youtube  how to videos, the venture in to uncharted territory began. Removing the old points was a no brainer, but the distributor pull took a deep breath and jump into the pool. I had scratched a line in the engine and housing to get them lined up again, removed the keeper nut and with a little persuasion the entire distributor lifted out. The fitting of the new ignition module was straight forward, and thanks to my marks, the distributor returned to its original spot. Cap on, wires connected to the coil, it all seemed to be going well.

    Then the frustrations began. According to the instructions, if the car was running before, it SHOULD start right up. BUT NO!! Crank, crank, crank, no fire. Check everything out…Crank, crank crank, still no fire. Rinse, lather, repeat…

    Called mechanic, said everything sounded correct. He said maybe the magnetic disc might be too far from the ignition module and not getting the signal. Called California/JBugs tech support, sent pics, we went over everything could not come up with a solution. I described the module to him, and how it did not match the pics of the ignition module in their catalogue and vids. He sighed and said Compu-tronix/Pertronix had changed it and no one knew anything about the new unit.

    He suggested changing back the old points, make sure it runs, then call Pertronix directly and ask them for help.

    I did as suggested. Thanks to the new coil, distributor cap and rotor, wires, plugs, fuel filter (even WITH the old points) the car fired right up.Runs like a Swiss,(ok GERMAN) watch. Called my mechanic and JBugs back and told them I was sticking with the tried and true, albeit old school points set up.

    Sometimes NEWER may NOT be BETTER…

     

    Amor Conquista Todo

    #303192

    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Amen to that!  😛

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #303195

    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Hey guys, when I put the Pertronix in Bridget a few years back I had the same problem—until I turned the distributer about 30 degrees. Clockwise, as I recall. Someone on the board then said they had the same experience. TDC in the #1 cylinder stays the same, but TDC on the #1 plug wire, at the distributor cap, moves quite a bit.

    We never could figure out why. But once we dialed it in (as they say), it worked a treat.

    Of course, I did keep a spare disty with points and condenser under the seat, just in case.

    #303202

    secretagentcat
    Participant

    @secretagentcat

    Just my two cents…I was always having problems with my distributor and timing. Seemed like she would always jump time at the worst possible moment…And I wasn’t smart enough to know how to get my car running again…One year, I went through all four AAA Calls. I’d had enough…

    I had my Bug Guy take out the old system and he installed the automatic advance system…I never had another problem…My Bug Guys are The Fine Boys at Blodget’s Bug Barn, in San Bernardino. They’ve been working on The Penny Marie for years and I’ve never been disappointed! These guys know their stuff! Not only are they a full service VW mechanic shop but they are a full service parts store as well…Need a hard to find part??? They’re the place to get it…Got a difficult question…They have the answer! Stacy has been working on VW’s for 45 plus years and his son Jack has been right by his side…Phone # (909) 885-0954 Their prices are the best around and they’re honest to a tee! They frequent all the Bug swap meets and shows so not only are they in the know but they’re well known in the Bug community and they’re just nice guys…Tell them Rick Cooper from Huntington Beach sent you…

    #303208

    scubasteve
    Participant

    @scubasteve

    I live in Illinois, so visiting Blodget’s Bug Barn in person is out, but I Googled them and found their site. They seem very highly rated.Thanks for the info.

    My LR has a Weber 2bbl carb, so no vacuum advance possible. I have to stick with the distributor system it came with. Also I have NO numbers stamped ANYWHERE on the engine, so it’s ANYONE’S guess what type or year it is.Thankfully, so many VW engine parts are universal!

    Amor Conquista Todo

    #303212

    pmossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Found this on The Samba:

    The full thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/engine_letters.php

    An excerpt:

    Exchange engines
    These engines are normally marked with a VW recycle symbol and an X at the end.
    Example:
    Information from a 5/73 USA service bulletin issued 5/73:
    Engines with the re-manufactured symbol, a letter, a number and ending with X, indicates a VW Exchange engine.  Before Oct., 1968 the X was not stamped onto the block.

    From April of 1972 Shortblocks were sold with the VW remanufacture symbol followed by a letter. No numbers were used, you were to stamp in the old engine number.

    Paul Mossberg
    1982 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to http://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #303215

    scubasteve
    Participant

    @scubasteve

    THANKS for the link! According to the info, mine is an exchange engine of unknown origin. It makes it difficult when ordering parts, but again since so many parts are the same across the years, other than the electronic ignition, I’ve not had much trouble.

    This is why I LOVE this place!!!

    Amor Conquista Todo

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