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A while ago, suffering from a hesitation that I could not tune out by enriching the 30/31 carb on my sp 1600, I replaced the 009 dist with a 035 SVA (no mechanical) as per stock in 1969. Timed it carefully and it ran great.
But, I am a tinkerer and decided to try an old Holley Bugspray that I rebuilt instead of the Solex. (Dual carbs won’t fit under my engine cover. I had a helluva time getting the /bugspray under there.) I also had to change the manifold to an isolated plenum type. After a lot of tweaking I got it to run very well and am happy. Sort of.The Bugspray does not have provision for running a vacuum advance distributor so I had to go back to the Bosch 009. But I wonder if I could run even better with some other distributor. (I currently am timed at 30 btdc @ 3000) Runs strong up through the rpm range.Do any of you old timer VW hot rodders have experience with the Bugspray and various distributors.(I have read Fishers How to Hot Rod a VW book and his recommendation of .060 main jets in the Bugspray are too big for me. Tried em. Also tried .057. Runs much better with .054 that I currently have installed. Am thinking of going down one more size to .050.)The Bosch 019 centrifugal advance distributor works well on slightly modified engines that do not have provisions for vacuum advance. It provides more total advance than an 009 and the 010, with a gradual advance curve that tops out at about 3500 RPM as I recall. The 010 advances faster, tops out at about 2500 RPM, and is best suited for high-performance, full throttle applications, while the 019 works better for a “daily driver.”
The 009’s biggest complaints are:1. The timing on the #3 cylinder firing is slightly retarded to make the engine run cooler2. They’re notorious for flat-spots off-idle, under 2000 RPM, when used on dual-port smog engines running 34 PICT carbs. You can usually adjust the flat spot out on single port engines running 28 PICT or 30 PICT carbs by putzing with the timing.The complaints against both the 010 and 019 are that they use two-piece points which:1. Can be hard to adjust accurately to get the contact points to align smooth and flat, and2. Require more frequent alignment and adjustment than the one-piece points used in the 009, SVDA, etc.Bottom-line, if you have the 009 running good, without flat spots, I’d just run it. If you want to tweak the 009, you can get electronic ignition modules that replace the points, reducing required maintenance with more accurate timing… but I’m not sure it’d be worth it in your case.My TDr came with a Brosol (Brazilian) 010 clone that I’m replacing with an 009 with an electronic module in it… largely because I got a good deal on it used, and I hated tinkering with those two-piece points every 5,000 miles or so. I used to run an 019, and liked it otherwise…As far as the Bugspray — I tried one once, years ago, and could never get it jetted to my satisfaction. Either too lean (causing hesitation) during acceleration, or too rich at higher RPMs with lousy gas mileage. It just provided too much air/gas mixture for my slightly modified 1641cc engine. So, I went to a progressive, that once tuned gave good acceleration and good gas mileage… I ran progressives on three different engines (one in a Karmann Ghia, and in two different busses) and contrary to many, I really like them for a mild, street VW engine.KentT2013-08-22 13:17:57
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Thanks Kent. I am already running Pertronix pickup in the 009 so I guess that is as good as it gets there.
When I first rebuilt the Bugspray, I did not change the high speed jets and it came with .047. So when I first tested it, It ran like a scared rabbit. But, Fisher had recommended .060 and I had read about difficulty finding the right jets so I ordered a bunch of sizes since they are relatively cheap. I first installed the .060 and may go all the way back down to the “originally installed” .047 but will watch temperatures to insure that I am not too lean.Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. I am starting to forget stuff that I once knew and need to bounce ideas off someone else.Ok, I seem to always have another question. My thread on carb adj. had moved to distr. replacement as the next step so this seems like a better place for my question. Ed was kind enough to send me a spare distr. he had on hand and I recvd. it today. The part number on the distr. is 113 905 205K which is for a 66-67 1300/1500 engine. The info I had from the carb adj. thread was that a 113 905 205T would work on my 71 1600 DP engine with the 30 PICT carb. So, before I put the 205K distr. on the engine, will it work ok or am I out of luck again?
Sam
I doubt you would notice any difference between the K and the T. Try it. I’d set the ignition at 32-34 deg BTDC @3500 rpm. Experiment around a bit, – if it pings while accelerating under load in 3rd or 4th, it’s advanced too far.
See what Allen and Kent have to say on this. I’m old and tired and don’t remember much of what I once knew.Looks like I sent you the original disty for my engine, Sam–the one they took out when they put the 34 PICT 3 in it.
Remember, these engines are pretty much all the same, so you’re matching the parts that need to be matched to each other–the right oil pump for the cam type you have; the right carb for your distributor. The displacement should not matter much, nor the year the case was made.Good luck.BTW, I got your check today, so we’re square. Thanks for sending.That carb and distributor setup should work together fine. With today’s ethanol, you may get ping at 32-34 BTDC, but it doesn’t hurt anything to try it. I’m theorizing that you may have to reduce it to about 30, or use 89 octane, but you won’t know until you try it. No two distributors of even the same model have the exact same advance curve…
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Hopefully, the gas will not be an issue. I’m using non ethanol gas. Have to get some new points and rotor for the distr. tomorrow, if I can find them locally at Adv. Auto, etc. Thanks all. I’ll let you know how it works out. At the moment I’m in the middle of removing the inside door latches and refinishing them. They were dull and rusty. Used Krylon chrome paint after sanding and cleaning them. They look pretty good, but in the process I took the door panels off and started taking a good look at the door edges and they need to be sanded and repainted. One thing leads to another.
Sam
Sam, put the doors on and come up to the VaBch Air&Auto show.
I also only run real gas. Hmmm, that’s probably why Ed beat me in the Carlisle autocross – I’m tuned for 89 octane real gas. I couldn’t find any in Carlisle and had to fill up with ethanol.Just, FYI guys: ethanol has a much higher octane rating than gasoline. That’s why they run it in dragsters. Whatever harm ethanol might cause to some fuel systems, detonation and preignition ain’t it.
edsnova wrote:Just, FYI guys: ethanol has a much higher octane rating than gasoline. That’s why they run it in dragsters. Whatever harm ethanol might cause to some fuel systems, detonation and preignition ain’t it.True that! 🙂But the pump gas is still mixed to give the octane rating stated. I’ve noticed “valve rattle” in engines designed prior to E-10 (such as VW single ports) that would disappear if you simply go from 87 to 89 octane and leave everything else as is…Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Yep, Ed & Kent are both right.
I run 89 octane only because it is the only real/pure gas that I can get locally. In New Bern, if you want real gas, you’re gonna run 89 octane. Real gas has more BTUs per gallon than ethanol and BTUs are what makes the car go.See:Also, ethanol has an oxygenating factor that requires larger jets than regular fuel. I’m jetted for real gas, not ethanol and was running way too lean a mixture. (This is why Ed beat me. ;))That’s a great resource Roy! Thanks.
I got into a debate in another car forum over gas mileage of gas vs e10.In my daily driver, my mpg suffers with E10 vs 100% gasoline. But that got blasted as relying on anecdotes and not science. Huh? Real world results are anectdotal? Ah well.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
I finally finished another project on my TDr and am finally getting back to installing the vac. adv. distr. that Ed sent me, but before I did the new distr. install I found a bad spark plug wire, so bought new wires and distr. cap and was going to try the replacement parts on the mech. adv. distr. before the change over to the vac. adv. distr. While reviewing the distr. install section of the John Muir manual (page 98)it shows that when the distr. is viewed from the top, the TDC mark on the distr. body is at the 5 o’clock position. When I looked at the mech. adv. distr. now on the engine, I noticed the TDC mark on the body of the mech adv. distr. is at the 2 o’clock position. This doesn’t seem to make sense to me. Is it possible for the two different distrs. to have two different TDC mark locations? If not, any ideas what has happened or why?
Sam
Short answer, yes. Make sure the TDC mark on the crankshaft pulley is lined up with the split on the engine case halves. Install the new distributor and make sure the center of tip of the rotor button is aligned with the TDC mark on the distributor body. This should be “close enough” for the engine to start and run. Then set the timing with a timing light, as described in the book.
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Sam, You have been chasing problems with carbs or timing or both for too long.
Why not start from scratch to eliminate any question of timing.I would take the valve cover off the right side,Turn the engine over until both intake and exhaust valves on #1 are closed. The notch in the pulley should line up with the split in the crankcase indicating TDC.Then, install the distributor, and hook it up electrically. Leave the plug wires off.Statically time it by turning the dist (with the cap off) watching for the spark at the points. When they first open it will spark as your turn the dist. Clamp it down. Now the dist and timing are set for 0 degrees advance.Now, put your plug wires on in the correct firing order (it’s stamped on the generator stand). #1 cyl is still at TDC and the post that the rotor is pointing towards is the #1 plug wire. It is important that the post on the dist, that the manufacturer designated as #1, be used as #1 because some of the VW dists have an intentionally retarded spark to #3 cyl since it is known to run hotter than the other cyls. (Most other engines don’t really care which post is used as #1, so long as at TDC +/-, #1 plug fires. Not so with VW)Your engine should now start and run (probably quite well).Once you get it starting and running well, I would then go on and time it according to whichever distributor I have installed.Sam, you have my number, call me if I didn’t explain it well enough.I do similar with one change. Instead of pulling a plug and looking for a spark I hook up a test lamp to the dist/coil hot wire and slowly turn the dist until the light just turns on. Do this a couple of times turning the dist back and forth to get rid of any gear slop. You can turn the crank to exactly the timing angle you want and set up the timing this way.
Gabe, I’ve always used that approach to set the static timing on a mechanical advance VW distributor. You can also use a continuity tester the same way.
For mechanical advance distributors I’ve typically checked the high-RPM total advance using a timing light when initially installing them (because the advance is never quite the same on any two distributors) and once I’d determined that for that particular distributor, from that point forward I’d time them statically with a test lamp.For mechanical advance ones, it often takes a bit of experimentation to establish the best initial timing point for statically timing them. After you’ve found the “sweet spot,” you can then paint a mark on the crankshaft pulley where you want to time the initial advance at TDC. It could easily be off as much as 5 degrees from the “factory spec” setting.Since he’s installing a vacuum advance distributor, he has little choice but use a timing light. So, I was just trying to get him close enough so the engine would start and run.Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Who said timing is simple? My race car builder neighbor came over, turned the distributor and set the timing by ear. He said Cologne engines never pay attention to the timing marks. He did the same for the carb. Now it starts really easy and pulls well. Can’t beat 30 years of race car experience.
Hope I’m not coming across as confrontational or argumentative — that’s certainly not the intent.
Only trying to be helpful… I too tune by ear, but can’t describe what I’m hearing.BTW folks, one advantage of VW distributor drives. You can’t get “one tooth off” on the distributor drive when removing/replacing the distributor like you can with many other cars. When the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley is aligned with the split on the engine case, the rotor button is either pointing to #1 cylinder on the distributor cap, or it is 180 degrees off (exhaust cycle for the 4-stroke engine) and pointing at #3. If so, turn the engine by hand one full turn…Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...
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