January 25, 2012 at 1:50 pm #233942
My MiGi currently has a 1500sp engine. It runs well but has low compression in #1 cylinder (75#). It has adequate power for me. I am not looking for a hot rod and have no interest in dragging or racing of any sort. A highly tuned, fine running, reliable engine is a joy for me.
A guy I know has offered me my choice of 3 currently installed 1500/1600sp complete engines that are still mounted in some of his old bugs in his field. $300 – he removes. They all look stock. No fancy carbs or mufflers and all tin is there. There is a ’68 a ’69 and a ’70. I was able to roll all three engines by hand with the generator belt. All 3 engines have been sitting in a field for a long time (>10 years).
I have (on my shelf) 2 almost new 1500/1600 sp heads that have new valves and rockers. I understand that the sp engine has higher torque and fewer problems with #3 cylinder cracking. I also understand that the dp engines have a bit higher hp.
Question: Would you
1. Take the $300 sp engine with the least crankshaft end play?
2. Scrap the sp spare idea and go with a 1600dp as my spare (he has a few of those also for $450+/-)?
3. Go with some other idea that has not come to me? Please tell me why.
Realizing that I am working alone (I don’t know within 200 miles who understands my passion for things that go vrooom.) I could carry a battery & jumper cables out there and possibly see how/if they turn over and possibly even run on starter fluid or a squirt bottle of gas. And possibly even build up oil pressure. BUT: Lets assume that I do none of this and I buy the engine as is.
If I did buy one of these sp engines, and was able to get it running well, I would eventually put a doghouse fan and cooler and tin on it.
I am old and feeble and do not want to split a case. Is there anything else that I should be looking for? Plusses or minuses.
Thanks guys, I am having a tough time making up my mind. See “old and feeble”.January 25, 2012 at 5:38 pm #248829
compression test? Even cold compression might tell you something important. Ask me how I know.
You have a set of new heads and don’t want to play for big HP, so why not keep your sp heads, keep your existing motor, and if you absolutely need a spare, do a nice slow rebuild to 1600 sp specs from whatever case is least knackered? Maybe one that’s been sitting inside a nice dry shop for 10 years, instead of in a field. Maybe a case that’s gonna sell to you for $100. Or, maybe, $0. You’re not in any hurry, why not wait until a better opportunity than this junkyard deal falls in your lap?January 25, 2012 at 7:20 pm #248830
Thanks for the response Ed. Cold compression test? Ok, I’ll bite how do you know? I have always wondered how you are supposed to take a compression test on a warmed engine yet remove the spark plugs only on a cold one. ??
Do I “absolutely need a spare”? No.
When I do decide to move on this, I would be intending to build a doghouse 1600/1641 sp. Each of these cars does have an engine lid and also an air cleaner (to keep rainwater out) installed so presumedly the only rust would be minor and from humidity, not a rain filled crankcase. And I would think that if I could roll the engine with no tools, the rust would be minimal and perhaps not significant. What does your common senseometer say (I seem to have misplaced mine)?
There were a few engines in the yard with no air cleaner and no lid that I didn’t even ask about. There were a handfull that I could not turn without a wrench (which I did not have). The 3 engines that I was looking at were all in very plain jane bugs with no fancy wheels or other go fast accessories. (Makes you wonder why they are sitting in his yard eh?)January 26, 2012 at 12:54 pm #248831
Come on guys, I know that I can get some good advice here. Please.January 26, 2012 at 1:15 pm #248832Scott A ChynowethParticipant
Roy I’ll chime in.
$300 for a core be it sp or dp seems a bit high.whether it be a 1500 or 1600 the only differance is the heads.DP will give you a bit more snot,If you call 20 horse snot.I paid 125 for a 1971 AH dual port with case savers.
Seeing as you already have a good set of heads offer him $100 and you pull,and yes take the one that has the least end play.
I don’t know how much MPG changes between sp and dp,last trip I made with mine (1600 dp34 pic 3 carb) 1 was gettin 20 on old highways,and 18-19 on th Interstates coming back,500 mile trip.
This could get long but horse power will also relate to Better MPG,if the engine does not have to work as hard it should be more efficient.
Hope this helps,Don’t be in a rush,the right deal will come along.I rushed, $700 for a rebuilt and had to rebuild after 1400 miles.Another long story.January 26, 2012 at 8:10 pm #248833
Cold compression was the test I should have done on the tall-6 Mercury outboard I bought a few years back, attached to an ’83 Renken bowrider for $1000 all-in, with trailer.
The engine turned over smartly & so I was conned by the PO into believing we had minor spark issues. When I finally got around to compression testing I discovered I had zero compression in one of the holes. The engine was assuredly toast.
In your case it would not be so bad, given that the cylinder/piston kits are readily available and simple to install. But it’d be worth knowing. Hell, it would be worth it seeing if you could back the plugs out of the engines you’re contemplating.
And I’ll ditto OldBuzz again on those prices. You’re negotiating for cores. Cores should be a little cheaper than your seller is asking.January 26, 2012 at 9:02 pm #248834
Thanks guys, You are right about seeing if the plugs will come out. I once bought a 4 cyl Mazda truck with about 45k miles. It logged 190k miles by the time I sold it. One of the plugs was original I didn’t dare take it out. The other 3 had been changed a few times. I’ve got a line on another 1500cc engine for $150 without a distributor (I have a spare) and no muffler (also I have a spare) but it is about 60 miles away. Maybe I’ll take a ride and look at it.January 28, 2012 at 6:22 am #248835
Got the seller to agree to “think about” a $250 offer for a 1970 1600 sp engine with a “B” case. Very little rust, only cobwebs. I’m sure that it is all original. Complete engine. 035 distributor. Orig carb (even the “throttle positioner” and some other factory smog stuff which would go away immediately after purchase). This is the 1600 without the doghouse cooler. Does anybody have any opinions on if this setup cools adequately in the summer on hot black asphalt roads? Depending on what I hear here, I will go take endplay and compressions. Thanks.January 28, 2012 at 7:00 am #248836Scott A ChynowethParticipant
My 2 cents is 250 for a core is still to high.
Talk him in to letting you fire it up.check oil put in a battery,dribble some gas down the carb,hot wire it and short the starter if need be.If it runs and don’t make any ungodly noises then 250 I could live with.
I did a little looking B is 1600 sp late 69-to early 70, 57 horse.Ok so I was a bit off on horses there was a 65 horse dp but not for US markets
As far as cooling,If everthing is stock it should be fine.I would hope that the design engineers had some idea of what was needed to cool these engines.I think cooling issues come into play when guys start modifiying the factory set-ups and putting them small POWER pulleys on for that added 2 horse,wich turns the fan slower causing overheating.January 28, 2012 at 7:25 am #248837
Thanks Scott, If he decides to take the offer, I’ll do just that. I am not really worried about the compression (if I can get her to fire and sound ok.). I do not intend to even remove the plugs or take compressions since I have 2 good heads and would intend to (at least) remove the pistons and put in new rings. First problem will likely to be to get spark at the plugs. Then the old squirt bottle of gas (assuming that starter will roll it) ought to tell me something. First, it’s gotta stop raining.January 28, 2012 at 9:44 am #248838
Good luck, Roy.
Doghouse coolers work better but for a stock engine the stock tins are just fine. I’ve got the old style case (vintage 1966, 1300, single relief) and who knows what cylinders and pistons. Pretty sure it’s the original shroud and tins, which would be non dog house (can’t really see back there to be sure). She’s cooling just fine, so far. And apparently has done so for the past 30–if not 45–years or so.
Something to check on though: I’ve read that leaving engines sit for many years can harm valve springs. If you don’t turn the engine over, even just a quarter turn by hand every few months or so, then the same few valve springs end up getting compressed forever. That weakens them, and then they often fail soon after the engine is revived.
This is why your new heads might be the way, no matter what. Sitting on the shelf, disconnected from any camshaft, all the springs are uncompressed forever, so they stay new(ish) for much longer.January 28, 2012 at 11:16 am #248839
Thanks Ed, I guess that makes sense about the valve springs. I do intend to put the new heads on.
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