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Got a little stick time in today. Had to run up to court to check out a guy. (A guy who founded the company that’s putting on the Baltimore Grand Prix, in fact, but anyway).
So I redid Bridget’s front brakes last year with new pads, new cylinders, etc. and etc. But today I hit the brakes and feel the front end dive, even as I got off the brake. Like a sticky caliper–except I don’t have any calipers.
The thing all but locks, like it’s got a mind of its own. Then it hangs a minute–the brakes are applied even though my foot is hovering well off the pedal. Then it lets go.
Except one time it didn’t let go until after I got going in first.
So I ran the car, 20 miles up and back to district court (on the highway), then 20 miles home, and the problem seemed to subside. But I don’t like it.
Anyone experience this?
Gotta be something I did wrong. I’m going to take her apart and rebuild the brakes again asap. And no more joy riding till it’s done. But I wonder what I should be looking for in there.
Maybe not replacing all the springs and clips inside the brake drums was the mistake?
That sounds like tired springs and grippy shoes. Your old shoes were glazed and didn’t overpower the springs.
Did you install new brake lines — the flexible ones that attatch to the wheel cylinders? Old ones will eventually collapse inside and prevent the brake fluid from escaping from the wheel cylinder when you release the brake pedal. It will only seep out slowly.
There’s a lot going on inside a brake drum that we don’t have to worry about with disk brakes.
Have you used the car since you redid the brakes last year? The shoes could have absobed moisture, causing them to stick. Driving could have dried out the shoes causing the problem to subside.
I’ve seen shoes hang up on the inside of the backing plate due to rust from a car sitting in a humid environment. Driving would have smoothed out the surface of the backing plates.
Normally I don’t like problems that seem to fix themselves. This could be one where that is valid.
Are the brakes adjusted? New shoes need to be adjusted until they wear into the shape of the drums and the entire shoe contacts the drum. Otherwise enough space develops that the leading edge of the shoe is doing all the work and has enough leverage to overpower the return spring.
When you redid the brakes, did you put the leading and trailing springs back in the right position and order? The springs could be hanging up.
Had it happen to mine! Turned out to be the brake hose. Sometimes they will delaminate inside and the rubber lining drops down and blocks the return of fluid. Mine looked as good as new.
I’ve had both.
Often, if he car sits too long over a lovely northeast winter, a brake pad or two will have fused to the drum. A few clutch pops usually will break it loose and a couple miles gentle dragging the brakes will clean it up.
I had the rear brake lines collapse on themselves too. The symptom….apply the brakes, they work fine, but feel like they never release when you release the brake pedal. What’s happpening is the brake lines are so constricted, they allow fluid through under pressure when you apply the brakes, but the back pressure when you release the brakes is not enough to overcome the collapsed or collapsing brake lines.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
I vote brake hoses…the most overlooked thing in a brake job. A good idea to install new springs/hardware when you do drum brakes too. Rock Auto sells VW brake hoses (there are 4) and brake shoe spring and hardware kits cheeep! Pink MG40767.4673263889
Thanks guys. I did get new soft hoses, front and back, and a couple hard ones too. New shoes, new wheel cylinders. I emoried the insides of the drums and I blasted the breaks to set them after install–and yeah, figured out the star wheel adjusters too–or thought I did.
Obviously did something wrong. Or…Could’ve been the months the things set flat on the garage floor while I redid the beam….
Hey Ed,
Maybe it’s because you should be working on your BRAKES, not your BREAKS!!!
(Sorry man. You’re a writer. I couldn’t resist!)
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Ha! Good catch Paul. I wrote that post at work.Looks like my decision not to get the hardware kit didn’t pay off. Will order & redo the job as soon as I can find a few hours.
edsnova40767.8708449074Ed,
You made a comment that triggered an ancestral memory. You blasted the brakes to seat them. Brake shoes are not completely cured when they come out of the box. The heat of the braking process is used to cure the ablative material that is the lining of a brake shoe. You may have overheated the surface when you blasted the brakes to set the shoes. In the extreme case the lining could separate from the steel backing plate. It doesn’t sound as if that happened in your case. Then again, the shoe that didn’t release until you stepped on the gas could be a loose lining. Wearing shoes to match them to the drum should be a gradual process. That could explain why your brakes are grabby. You might solve the problem by adjusting the brakes and braking normally. If they still grab you could remove the drums and lightly sand the surface of the shoes.
Ed,
You felt the front end dive. That’s a characteristic of the rear brakes. The front brakes cause the rear end to rise.
Your problem might not be in the front brakes.
Was Bridget stored with the parking brake on? That would have left the retraction spring extended for a long period of time. Have you adjusted your rear brakes lately? Is the emergency brake handle all the way down? Are the emergency brake cables dragging?
Peter
Good questions, all, Peter.
And confession: I ain’t done the rears yet. Didn’t have the giant socket. Got it now. Maybe I’ll start there.
To your question: I do leave the e-grake on when it’s parked. I think the cables are set nice–since I just did that when I moved the handle. But my theories about how things work are often proved wrong.
I’ll let you all know what I find.
As for bedding the brakes. I think it was mark said do it that way. I did heat ‘wm up pretty good that first day. No smoke, but several tight stops from about 45 (as fast as I’d dare on my local back road). This all happened last fall, and the brakes seemed to be doing really well after that. It was this spring I got a bit of a stick, and only yesterday something to actually notice.
Rears. That makes sense.
Ed,
Check the adjustment on the rears before you start spinning wrenches. I once saw a Squareback that wouldn’t go forward until you reversed to release the leading shoe on one side. That’s tough to do at a light. People told the owner it was a transmission problem. I adjusted the brakes and the problem was solved.
Rear brakes can stick when the emergency/parking brake has been left on for too long. You could have trapped moisture in the linings.
Make sure that the e-brake lever at the wheel isn’t sticking.
Take your time when you do the rear brakes. There are a bunch of extra levers and springs in there that make the e-brake work. The retractor spring will test your forearm strength and exercise your knowledge of obscure expletives when you discover that you put the wrong one on top and have to do it again.
Peter
Ordered the parts. I will try your method tomorrow, and thanks, Peter. If it works I’ll drive her like that at least until the new springs come in.
The rears are probably due. Like I said, I’ve had the car near two years now and have no idea when those rear drums were off last. So we’ll see.
Ed,
Your problem could be as simple as damp linings or rear brakes that were overdue for adjustment. Rear shoes last a loooonnng time. They only contribute 20% of the braking effort. Adjust the brakes and see if the grabbing changes before you start taking things apart.
Peter
Tried the rear adjusters. Seems like they were Ok to start with. Drove a bit and didn’t quite get the stickiness I had, but don’t feel like it’s fixed. Try the front adjusters later…
So my parts came in–new springs all-round, new rear shoes–and I pulled off the front wheels to see what was what.
Passenger side adjuster was broken.
There’s this little sheet metal springy thing that lays over the star wheels, apparently to keep them from turning on their own once you adjust them?
Yeah, that thing. It was broken off. I found it wedged under the rear return spring.
It did not appear to be interfering with the brakes action, but the top adjuster was all out and the bottom one was all in, so I got the idea they had been turning.
As this adjuster appears to be an integral part of the backing plate, my solution, of course, was JB Weld. Cleaned up both sides of it, narrowed the springy thing a bit so it would settle in, and glued it back on.
Put the wheel back together today with new grease, readjusted the brakes and hope for the best. No test drive as it’s pouring down rain and probably will be doing so for the next 24 hours.
Wish me luck.
OK….
Good luck!
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Ed cip1 a vw parts house sells them spring clips to hold the adjusters.I replaced all of mine,they are only peened in place,I filed the edges smooth to fit the new ones and tack welded them in place.
I thought the brake adjusters bolted in from the back side of the brake back plate. Two small screws or one small bolt like the wheel cylinders did. Perhaps that’s only on the Ghia.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackI love a happy ending!
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
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