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Roy, you can get rubber boots in the hardware store’s plumbing department that are about 3-4″ long. Might work, but I don’t know how they’d hold up to heat and gasoline. A bit of RTV silicone would help seal against leaks. Make sure you use some kind of metal brace to hold the center section solidly in place.
Should you weld on pieces to extend the runners, make sure you sooth out any burrs or bumps inside, similar to porting a head…
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Thanks Kent. I’ve used those adapters (we used to call them Fernco’s – I think it was a brand name) many many times but didn’t think of it. Damn, – your memory is a terrible thing to lose.
It may not run but it looks good….
will put the gas to it today and see how many flat spots I have….
Happy Jack
CAN ANYONE ADVISE ME AS TO HOW TO POST A PICTURE?????
I tried every trick I know — in the mean time, anyone interested in seeing the progress on Emma”s new Weber Carb can check out the latest picture in my media tab under Happy Jack….
Happy Jack
(not very happy with his lack of “Picture Posting Prowess….!!)
Looking really good Jack! I’m jealous of how accessible those adjustment screws are! Looks like you’ve succeeded in putting heat risers on it (though they’re locked down yet). I can’t tell if you’ve added a brace for the center section with the carb or it or not. I think you’ll likely need one. I don’t see much room for velocity stacks though. Keep us posted as you get it running…
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Hey Kentt —
There is a slotted extension on the manifold that fits over the center stud on the engine case — We had to file that slot to get the manifold to fit in the space — but it does fit and it is good and solid. I went to the local VW boneyard and got a set of preheat pipes which fit the manifold and just had to be bent to fit the exhaust.
No room for stacks — BARELY enough room for a cut-down air filter. These BCWs are not built for such a tall intake manifold/carb combination. I may have to use some more duct tape and a prayer or a cuss or 2 to get the fiberglass back end on the car.
Roy came over this afternoon and we got the car started, idle adjusted and took Emma for a test drive around the block. BIG Flat Spot coming off idle but lots of get up and go once you get past 2000 RPM. The car has a 009 Pertronix distributor (no vac advance) installed. I may have to rummage through my spare parts and find an old 034 Vac Advance distributor that I can install the spare electronics module in and swap out that 009 & see if the flat spot goes away.
But I’m sure that we are going to have to fiddle with the jetting and emulsion tubes etc to get it sorted out…
…and I still have to figure out how I’m going to be able to close the engine cover over the air cleaner……
What Fun!!
PICs of work in progress in Media center
“Happy to be able to Goose the Throttle” Jack
…except for that flat spot coming off of idle 🙁
Sounds to me like the infamous “009 flat spot”
Read the article on Rob and Dave’s air cooled page.
And here is a thread on the Samba.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Thanks Paul — looking forward to meeting up with you and the crowd at Va Beach!!
Good Info!! One of the links (Rob and Dave) suggested increasing the stroke on the acc pump to max — that is going to be the next thing I do after the afternoon rainstorm passes …..
…As I said before, What Fun!! If I keep this up I’ll soon know even more stuff about stuff that only a crazed VW-based Tdr owner would care about…
Happy Jack
Well the reply that I posted earlier never showed up on the forum, though it showed for a while on the Activity stream – now that’s gone too…
Jack, I think you’re on the right track. Leave the jets alone for now, and focus on the accelerator pump and emulsion tubes. Putting a vacuum advance distributor in temporarily might make it easier to tune – but it may not give quite the acceleration a mechanical advance 009 might. A Pertronix SVDA (essentially a 009 with vacuum assist) is the best overall.
<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”> Final thought is that it’s better to run a tad rich than a tad lean when it comes to both performance (hesitation) and engine temps. Too, too rich and it will bog, too lean and it will stumble and hesitate… If the accelerator pump adjustment alone doesn’t resolve it, go to bigger emulsion tubes, then perhaps back off the accelerator pump a bit… It’s a complementary effect. Once you get the acceleration OK, you can monitor the spark plugs (and MPG) and see if you want to tweak the main jets a bit.</span>
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Good advice from Kent! The Pertronix SVDA gives you the best of both worlds.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Increasing the squirt on the acc pump helped a lot — now I have just a little hesitation off of idle, which I can compensate for by easing down on the throttle.
So right now, I’ll stick with the Pertronix non-vacuum advance distributor that is in the car.
I ordered an assortment of jets and a set of F11 emulsion tubes. Let the GAMES begin!!
The quest is to determine how “good”” better than good” can be………car is quite drivable and a lot better than stock…but how “better” can it get and where is “best?” and how much work is it to get there and when will I know I’m there?
Happy Jack
Well, best would likely be when you convert it to fuel injection! I am collecting together the required pieces to do just that to mine. maybe even a turbo if an appropriate one turns up in my travels!
Let the GAMES begin!! The quest is to determine how “good”” better than good” can be………car is quite drivable and a lot better than stock…but how “better” can it get and where is “best?” and how much work is it to get there and when will I know I’m there? Happy Jack
Again, I’d start with the emulsion tubes, before changing jets. You might just be encountering the infamous 009 flat spot, but a bit richer transition circuit should help.
Why do I now sense high lift rockers in your future? 😉
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Kent, Great idea. I was in the process of installing hi-lift rockers a few months ago when my eyes went goofy (double vision) and I lost interest in the project. So….I just happen to have a brand new “kit”. The biggest problem that Jack has is that he is always (as in ALWAYS) working on tweaking something, or improving something, or not. So busy that he doesn’t take the time to drive his TDr before he’s “at it” again with a paint brush, or a screwdriver or improved manifold in hand.
His Weber installation and tuning is coming along nicely. Some emulsion tubes and jets coming in the mail soon.
Emma is getting closer to being a great running car. I got the F11 Emulsion tubes, the air corrector and the main jets in the mail yesterday and am still waiting for the idle jets to get here from the UK (way cheaper from across the pond..). I was able to get the various jets for around $ 4.00 each and the emulsion tubes for $10 each — all with combined shipping. I’ll have my own “Weber Jetting Kit” once all of the parts get here for a whole lot less than buying a pre-packed kit of jets.
Unfortunately Roy and I had a real surprise and not in a good way — while waiting for the parts, we checked the timing and found that my timing was wandering all over the place. It seems that the 009 distributor in the car had a very sloppy shaft and was erratic — took the electronic module out of it and installed it in one of Roy’s hand-me-down VW vac advance distributors and put it in the car (since the Weber has a vacuum port installed I was able to use a vac advance distributor vice the 009 aftermarket one that was so sloppy).
Finally, we checked the various jets and parts that came on the Weber IDF 40 carb only to find out that the previous owner had a fetish for drill bits and used them vigorously in reaming out the existing jets. So a drilled out 160 main jet is in reality a 200 + jet.
Lesson learned — if playing with used carburetors don’t assume what is stamped on the parts is correct — in my case, it means that I purchased a “kit” of jets based on how the car was running with the existing jets — based on the numbers stamped on them. So what I get may be way off from what I need…..
I guess I’ll get to be good at selling extra jets on eBAY once this project is done and I have a really great, well-jetted center-mounted Weber IDF 40 equipped Emma!!
More fun once the rest of the jets get here
Happy Jack
That’s the common complaint with non-German Bosch 009s! Out of curiosity, did you time the new, used distributor for total advance (3000-3500 RPM) or at idle? I think I’d try for about 28-30 degrees total advance, and let idle timing fall where it may.
The jet adventure sounds like my luck…
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Update: Getting closer to having a fine running TDr
Hey Folks —
Kentt said it was time for a status report on Emma — so here is the latest to date:
It turns out that I was working 2 problems together — tuning the used center-mount Weber IDF 40 carb and fixing the car’s habit of running hot (around 210-220 on 95 degree day with beating sun and running at 65-70 MPH.
1st to be checked was the thermostat — used a heat gun I normally use for heat shrink tubing (see pics in my Gallery) Checked good.
Ordered and installed (just today) a fan Venturi from Awesome Powdercoat (see pics) –it may turn out to be as useless as Roy’s “Wetter Water “snake oil equivalent radiator additive — but that’s Roy’s story about his Mini and not mine to tell …
I’ll do a high speed run tomorrow and post the results. Also ordered and installed a new low profile foam air cleaner from the UK — it MAY allow all of the fiberglass panels, hatches and parts to go back on the car and close up over the new carb — finger’s crossed — (see pics)
Changed motor oil — went to a 0W-30 synthetic — got a little scared of the “0” and did not really see a marked decrease in engine temp so went back to Valvoline VR1 racing 10W-30 conventional oil with ZDDP….
Did lots of 60 mph runs ending with shutting off the key and coasting into a convenient convenience store where I pulled a plug from each side to check the main jets (see pics). We changed the main jets as well as the air corrector jets several times to get that “just right look” to the spark plugs. I did have to remember that I still have the steering lock mechanism installed on the car — guess how I found out that I really did not want to turn the key completely off…..!!!
Finally I did some slow speed runs into Roy’s River Bend community keeping the RPMs below 2000 on my way to Roy’s house where we pulled a plug from each side to check and then swap out the idle jets — several times — to get the idle circuit running right by looking at the plugs, making an idle jet change, doing another run and …rinse and repeat — you get the idea……
So far in all of this I learned that setting up a center-mount (or probably dual) Weber carbs is not difficult — just tedious — and my typical fast-pace is NOT what it takes to get the job done — tortoise, not hare when it comes to proper jetting of these carburetors.
Next up is to take a nice long run tomorrow at various speeds and see if the car runs cool and fast, with no stumbling, no hesitation, and no flat spots…
…stay tuned — more news tomorrow
“Happy the drudgery is almost over and the carb is almost perfect” Jack
And it starts & idles well. Strong acceleration and runs (as my grandfather used to say) “like a scared rabbit!”.
Yay! That sounds great. I’m a big Weber fan!
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Hey Folks,
I just ran out of gas but Murphy was kind to me —
I ran out of gas on the way to Royal’s house for the “best and final” tweak on the idle mixture screws. I got within 1 mile of his house and the car started to buck and sputter — I had been trying to calibrate my gas gauge, not knowing if E was really empty. And the gauge needle was resting directly on the E. By my calculations, I thought I had at least a gallon of gas left in the tank. But E really meant “ain’t a drop left in the tank.”
Well, the engine finally quit about another 500 yards down the road right across from a Shell station right where I needed to be in the left turn lane. I only had to push Emma across the divided road and to the pumps — and a kind soul stopped to help me — when I was about 30 feet from the pump…but I’m not complaining.
So lucky me, I put in $8.00 of 93 octane with ethanol (I normally run ethanol free and did not want to fill up on the “normal” Shell fuel). and looked up to the sky and said “thanks” rather than “why Me.”
Emma started right up on the fresh gas and I recommenced my trip to Roy’s. I got about 100 yards from the station and the car quit again — no fuel in the fuel filter at the carb……maybe my “Thanks” was not loud enough to be heard……
After about 10 minutes of shaking the filters and messing with the pressure regulator (electric fuel pump and regulator in the car left over from the BIG 2332cc engine) finally got it going enough to get to Roy’s.
We got to looking more closely at the fuel filter near the tank outlet and found some large chunks of orange crud (left over sealant used by the prior owner on the sender unit to seal it to the tank) that had probably broken loose when I ran to empty and then got lodged in the fuel line exit on the tank. (see pics in my gallery).
So we did the final tweak on the idle mixture screws and the idle speed screw and I drove home to take out the tank and see what was wrong…turns out that running out of gas was a REALLY GOOD THING since I found that the tank outlet was a fouled mess just waiting to clog up == sometime in the future when I was not within a few hundred yards of help.
I drained the fuel, pulled the tank, washed the tank with water and inspected the insides — tank look good after the bath and the clean out of the outlet connection.
Now I just have to wait for the rain to let up, the tank to dry out, and my trip out to the parts store to buy some new filters.
THEN, I can do a high speed run and check if that “magic” Venturi ring I installed on the fan shroud will live up to the testimonials posted by the owner Clark on the Awesome Powder coat website. Roy insists that Clark’s mother wrote those testimonials — based on pure fact and empirical evidence, I’m sure.
I’ll post the results once I stop running out of gas, have a clean tank and filters, and get up enough courage and trust in the car to take her out for another spin.
“Happy to have had Murphy’s help today” Jack
FINAL REPORT — New Weber IDF-40 center-mount carburetor on a 1641cc engine —
So the new short air cleaner is installed, the back fiberglass panels have bee reinstalled, the spare tire remounted and the car pronounced “Fit for Duty” and a trip to Va Beach in October (once the distributor problems mentioned in my other post are sorted out).
Here are some of the specs and lessons learned from my center-mount carb install project:
Stock center mount manifold is 5 3/4 inches tall, measured from the center seam of the engine case where the securing bolt for the center mount protrudes. The stock manifold with a 30/31 PICT Solex carb is 10 inches from the engine case to where the air cleaner mounts to the carb.
New intake manifold is 8 1/2 inches tall……The Center Mount with the Weber IDF-40 is 12 7/8 inches tall.
I purchased the Weber IDF-40 carb with a center mount manifold and all of the hardware of $94.00 on eBay.
I had to purchase various types and sizes of jets to get the carb set to the engine. The jets were actually pretty inexpensive — but getting the jetting correct took a LOT of time and effort and trips up and down the road. Getting the carb properly jetted was not difficult, just tedious. But once it was done, it was done for good as long as nothing major is done to the engine.
As I drove down the highway today with my new carburetor and my “borrowed” distributor and points, I had a great big smile painted on my face —
I never thought that a BCW Tdr with a near-stock 1641cc engine with a very mild Scat cam could run as well as Emma is running today.
Replacing the existing carburetor with the Weber center mounted IDF-40 (with the correct emulsion tubes, idle jets, main jets, air corrector jets, acelerator pump jets — along with proper mixture screw adjustments and idle speed adjustments) REALLY made the car something special. I no longer miss the 2332cc dual-carb engine that was in the car. The car still has lots of pep but now has some really good road manners and drivability that was missing with that BIG engine.
If you have the patience and the time, I highly recommend the single Weber IDF-40 install for your stock or almost stock engines in your VW-based Tdrs.
Project facts:
Carb jet costs — I purchased all of the jetting parts off of eBay. I bracketed the existing jets and used recommendations found on line as a starting point for ordering a range of jets. I ordered 4 air corrector jets for $15.00; 6 idle jets for $24.95; 2 F-11 emulsion tubes for $19.98; 4 main jets for $14.40 Total for all of the jetting parts: approx $75.00 == and I have spare jets that I can either keep, sell on eBay or donate to someone else who wants to set up a center mount Weber on their car.
Car configuration:
1641cc engine built from old and new parts last November
Stock pistons and connecting rods balanced using a postage scale
SCAT C15 cam, cam followers, springs, keepers (from CIP1 as a kit)
Street header exhaust with heat exchangers
Hide Away muffler tucked under the #1&2 valve cover
26mm oil pump
stock valves lapped into the valve seats
Center mounted Weber IDF-40 carburetor
Pertronix SVDA distributor
FlameThrower ignition coil
Electric fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator (left over from the big engine)
Fan Shroud Venturi Ring from Clark @ Awesome Powder Coat
RAMAIR 25mm air filter (from UK)
Final Jetting for the Carb as mounted on Emma:
Driver side:
145 main jet
F11 Emulsion tube
1.70 air corrector jet
55 idle jet
Passenger side:
145 main jet
F11 emulsion tube
Soldered and drilled od air corrector jet – drilled to 1.50
55 idle jet
Great reference for how it works and how to jet a Weber IDF carb:
http://www.scuderiatopolino.com/TuningofWebercarburetorsrev2.pdf
Feel free to PM me if you want additional info on who, what, where and why of this project
Happy Jack
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