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Thanks for the photos Dick.
Lest anyone get confused, Dick’s pictures actually show an “un-enclosed” engine.The cylinder head tin is in place. And that is absolutely necessary!!!There is no barrier sealing the upper part of the engine compartment from the lower (in particular, separating the exhaust and muffler system from the engine top end).Dick’s pictures also demonstrate something common to many replicas, the “separation” is impossible in many replicas because of the way the engine compartment is configured. There is no engine compartment floor or even a rear valance to seal to.Here’s a nicely done engine I found on-line. The colors help demonstrate what we are talking about. The gray panels around the bottom of the visible portion of the motor seal around the engine and seal to the floor pan of the Beetle. There is a gasket between the gray panels and the Beetle sheet metal. The top end of the motor is completely separated from teh bottom end, and the hot air from the cylinders, heads and exhaust are kept below the car and out of the intake flow.
PMOSSBERG2013-07-29 14:31:09
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Now with all that said…
No dune buggy in the world has that complete separation.And like I wrote in the other thread, I’ve run my Duchess for over 30 years with only the cylinder tin in place. I know…it’s wrong. I also know it has not been a problem.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul, The way I look at it, if they built the LR (unenclosed) it must be ok, I never had a problem.
I agree! But I know lots of VW guys will say we’re wrong. 😉
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
My TD looked about like Dick’s when I got it. I added the tin around the pulley and also on the front by the flywheel. I reasoned that the pulley tin would help to keep radiant muffler heat from the engine. Seems to work in this climate. I rarely get over 200 degrees oil temp. 210 is the max recorded.
When talking about tin, I think it is important to remember that we (even me in NC) live in relatively moderate climates and the VW Bug was designed to be able to handle much hotter temps than our northeast cars see. I lived in southwest Fla for quite a few years and the summer road surfaces in Florida, Ga, Ariz,…. get much much hotter than they do in the northeast.Just wondering. Where does the hose that comes out of the oil fill cap go. Mine goes back under the rear wheel well.
Greg, Google “crankcase ventilation”. In the photo, it goes to the underside of the bottom plate of the air filter.
I can’t seem to get my 1600sp to not run too hot. It’s ok if I keep it under 60 mph but it’ll go to 220 and beyond if I push it. Last evening I tryed out for top speed and got about 78 mph but oil light was flickering and temp guage well over 210 when I stopped I have shielded over the rear of the engine to eliminate recirculation timing is 30 degrees at 3200 rpm main jet is opened up to 130 on 30 pict/3 carb. I’m using stock oil cooler, next step will be going to doghouse style if I don’t put a liquid cooled in there first. Temp sender is on pressure regulator plug and I’ve tested it with heat gun, it is fairly accurate. I have a 30mm filter/ pump on there so should have lots of volume, now using mobil 1 5/30 syn because i use it in all my other cars and temps are some lower than when I used 15w/40 diesel oil. Maybe I just worry too much! I often think, if it didn’t have the stupid gauge I would just drive it and be happy!
Ed Service
I have no doubt the doghouse cooler will be better, but the standard cooler in the shroud worked for millions of Volkswagens so should work on mine! I keep thinking something else must be wrong! I haven’t tried a vacuum dist yet ( my car came to me with a Pertronix flamethrower on it). I don’t need or want any more power, I don’t have this car for racing around the country! I am using the “mexican volkswagen” type header, do any of you know any simple tricks to get better flow through the manifold heat with this setup? ( I could port one end into the collector as suggested but that isn’t easy enough for me!! LOL) Not sure how much better it would work either.
Thanks!
Ed Service
220 is a bit warm and 225 is real trouble, generally speaking. Assuming your tires are the right size (165/80) you should be able to go faster than 78 with the car (85 or so in mine, according to the speedo, which is within 1 mph at 60). My car is an ancient 1300, upgraded to 1500 sp, old shroud, no header, etc. You should have a bit more grunt than me.
So. Do you have the tins installed? All of them?Is the fan operating perfectly (no slippage on the belt; right fan for the shroud, etc) and the intake not blocked?There is no foreign object (a rag, say, or a plastic bag) inside the shroud? (like melted on the oil cooler?)If you answered “yes” to all three questions, then i got nothin.Ed, I did a super clean of all the engine parts, esp the fins on the cylinder jugs and it made a lot of difference on my non-doghouse 1600.
I doubt that the different distributor would make a difference since you are running 30 degrees at speed which is what you would run with either dist. I did put a vacuum adv dist on but that was to cure stumbling while accelerating.It could be that your oil cooler is partially blocked with debris, flies etc. It is not to difficult to take the fan/generator/shroud off with the engine in the car on some of our TDr’s. Then you could clean out the air passages on the cooler.I have heard of the addition of a filter increasing temperatures due to its proximity to the exhaust piping. I do not have a filter. A 30mm pump is what I have and it should provide plenty of flow.Could you be running one of those smaller engine pulleys which advertise that they save power? They slow down the fan speed and hurt cooling. Are you sure that your belt is tight?All that being said, I don’t believe that 210 is too hot for an extended 78mph run. What bothers me is the oil light flickering. You say that your temp sender is on the pressure regulator plug. Do you mean on the casting just forward of the distrubutor? If your pressure regulator is not working correctly, it will bypass the oil cooler and your engine will run hot. The regulator is designed to bypass the cooler (it is a restriction to oil flow) thus reducing pressure when the engine oil is cool to warm it up more quickly. It is easy to take the regulator spring and ball out and clean to make sure that they are working freely.I’d be putting on an oil pressure guage.Do you have any pictures posted?Royal wrote:I have heard of the addition of a filter increasing temperatures due to its proximity to the exhaust piping. I do not have a filter. A 30mm pump is what I have and it should provide plenty of flow.A quick way to test if this is happening is to wrap aluminum foil around your oil filter, shiny side out, and take a test run. The aluminum foil should reflect off most of the heat from the nearby exhaust….Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...I have checked all the items so far posted and they are all good. I just tried a vacuum dist, I like the way it runs but still have 220 oil after 20 minute run at 60 mph. The oil temp sender is in the plug on the bottom of the engine under the oil pressure regulator. Have any of you used the ” adrian” pressure regulator with the ball? It does seem to me like it isn’t circulating oil through the cooler.
All of the temperature control items have been removed from my engine. thermostat and all linkage and vanes. Would it be worthwhile to locate these parts and reinstall them? I KNOW they should be there, but would that be the cause of the overheating?
Ed, I am just a low grade VW guy compared to most of the superguru’s here like KentT, Newkitman, Gkesseru, and others. But, removing the thermostat and movable vanes should effect how quickly it warms up. I do not think that removal would cause overheating. They are necessary to properly warm up the engine and prolong life.
Not at all familiar with Adrian pressure regulator. Were I you, I would do some serious investigating into the “regulator” close to the pulley since it controls oil flow through the oil cooler. (The other is really a relief and you probably don’t have it on a sp engine.)I removed the regulator and spring, all appears normal there. I have a dual pressure control engine so mine does have the valve at the flywheel end too. I’m wondering if I’m worrying over something that really isn’t a problem though. my engine doesn’t seem hot even though the gauge says it is, I just drove it home from town and the gauge is reading about 220 but I can hold onto the dipstick without it being uncomfortable. according to the old VW guys that was the test for too hot. I really like how it drives with the vacuum distributor though! that thing is staying on there! A person can spend a lot of money ” improving” things until they are a lot worse than where they started from! My engine appears to be original, I mean never having been taken apart, not bad for 43 years! but she probably has some loose spots in her, that likely is why the oil light flickers a little when hot. It has about .008 crankshaft endplay. I have bought a 1.9 wasserboxer and am tempted to make it into a oxyboxer for my car. VW cured most of the crankcase problems with the wasserboxer and I’d like to install it as a liquid cooled but there is a lot to be said for the simplicity of an aircooled engine in a car that is only driven in the summer and then only on nice days. The wasserboxer has an aluminum case, an oil filter, a proper bolt on flywheel and a proper rear crankshaft seal! It doesn’t appear very difficult to convert one to air cooled.
Oh! The wasserboxer has hydraulic lifters too! It would be nice to get away from adjusting lifters! AND make a quieter engine!
when I checked it with the infrared heat gun at work they were close. resolution on guage in the care is poor no markings between 210 and 250! you have to guess. is the bottom of the pressure regulator a good indication of true oil temp?
Try taking out your dip stick right after a long run ( hot engine ) and shoot the stick w/ a temp senser gun and see what you have.
I have came to the same conclusion that edsnova has, that my temp guage is lying to me! It got all the proper thermostat parts including a working thermostat and installed them today. Car is running beautiful! All the cold engine stumbling is gone, engine warms up quicker fuel mileage even seems better! Guage still at 220+ after a 20 minute run but I can hold onto the dipstick with no discomfort and even hold the oil filter for a few seconds, I couldn’t do that if the oil was actually at 220 degrees! I’m going to just assume 220 is the best for her! Sure having fun driving it around handles and drives really nice, I would say better than most Beetles I’ve driven, Doesn’t seem to want to head for the ditch when you meet a truck like the Beetles I’m used to. I’ll drive to work with her tomorrow and check the dipstick with the temp gun like schu suggested but I’m not sure I trust it anymore either!
Thanks for the help guys! It’s reassuring knowing we have so much experience and knowledge to fall back on! Now if anyone needs any help with their Deutz or Kubota tractor!
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