engine locked up

[Steve Crites]

James,

Thought I would start a new topic for us.  (thanks to Paul for the reminders!)

Starter OK? good.

Since the valve train checks out, check for oil in the coolant.  Have you drained the oil to look for water in it?  If yes to either one, it could be a blown head gasket and subsequent hydrolock.  If so, don’t turn it any more, it’ll just do more damage.

Ringo

 

Ringo39932.9043865741

[James Cochran]

Ringo,

The water was clear of any oil, and the oil was clear of any water. It’s a mystery to me. It was fine one minute then not the next. It reminds me of the jiggle sound that was the nut on a shock. May be simple. If I had her inside the garage I would be working now, driving me . I have two project cars taking up valuable garage space. I do have it in a 20′ portable garage, but it’s not the same. Friday night, I’ll go for it again. Thanks,

James

 

[Steve Crites]

James,

Good luck with it.  I’m sure you’ll figure it out and I hope it’s simple. As for now, I’m out of ideas.  I’ll check with some of my buds and if they have any brain storms, I’ll pass ’em along.

Keep us posted.

Ringo

[Dan Rosa]

James         & nbsp;      Check the distributer  I have seen them lock up and think it is a bad engine the bering in the housing can go bad no noise it will just not turning I hope it is simple                                       Best of luck Dan R.

[James Cochran]

Dan,

How do I check the distributor? Is this something that I can do without removing it? It’s a bear to just get to the nut  on it to adjust. I may just remove the fiberglass side panel on the driver side, that makes everything easier to get to, and it’s not difficult to slip off. Thanks Dan and Ringo,

James

[James Cochran]

Update:

Working area by area. Tonight I removed the new timing belt, the distributor is fine, spins without noise or friction, the cam is also fine, all valves work nicely. Since it is a no interference engine I can turn the cam without valves hitting the pistons. The valves were smooth, and glided up and down. The belt tensioner (new) was fine. The crankshaft will not turn tho. My next step is to check the clutch plate for any problems there. After that, perhaps drop the pan. I think this is my best plan of attack at this point. The starter had been eliminated early and is still off the engine. If anyone has some thoughts on an alternate plan of attack, just let me know. It will be Sat. night before I get back on it. Removing the head will be after the pan. Thanks for all the help guys, this is a weird one. Normally I can turn the crankshaft by hand on the pully, I did not use a wrench on it because I don’t want to force it. Hand only, even with the camshaft turning tonight. I do have all the marks aligned again.

James

[Rich Bellefeuille]

James,

Hmmmm, not good. Youn seem to be down to Crank and Pistons. Can’t turn in either direction? This is beyond me. I’ve not seen a Crank bearing sieze. Hopefully something in the clutch and not internal to the crankcase. Your approach is logical and methodical.

Good Luck!

Rich

[Paul Mossberg]

Hate to say it…but I saw a spun crank bearing once.

It was in a Mopar small block in my neighbors Dodge van. The crank was “frozen.” One half of one of the bearings had somehow come loose and rotated with the crank for about 90 degrees, until it jammed into place.

That said…your approach to a diagnosis seems right on target.

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[James Cochran]

Ouch, spun bearing. I hope I find something not so painful. It’s raining like crazy here, so I may not work on it tonight. She is on the drive under a portable garage, but the water runs under her on the driveway. My backup plan is to take the 460 out of the Mark IV and put it in the MG…..……just kidding. If it is a spun bearing, do you think this may be the time to drop a rebuilt engine in her and be done with it? I could just take the block to the machine shop and let them fix her up. On my other roadster I did that for new pistons (bored 20 over) and bearings, etc. I’m jumping ahead of myself. I’ll look at the clutch area next. Thanks guys!

James

James

[Paul Mossberg]

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[James Cochran]

It has been raining for the last two days, I hope to work on her tomorrow. Here is a pic of her when she died. I drove her to this spot, installed the new top, polished her, and turned the key to start her, nothing….locked up. Weird. I had to push her back into her nest, and that is where she is partially taken apart.

James

JasCochran39939.4183796296

[James Cochran]

Update:

The oil was fine, no indication of metal bits. The clutch area is fine as best as I can tell. It seems to narrow down to the block area which probably means bearing. I can easily get the pan off, and think I will do that before pulling the engine out. I doubt if I can see anything since the bearings will be covered. I have located a company that sells the crankshaft with matched bearing sets for $141. If it is a bearing, I will probably just take the block over to my local machine shop and leave it to their expertise. I did that with my last engine work on my other roadster and it was great. Dropped off the block and two days later picked it up, like new. They took care of the crankshaft and bearings as well as installed new pistons and rods, bored it 20 over, ground and reseated the valves, cleaned and painted the block. It was about $600 for a lot of work several years ago. It will be interesting to see how the price has changed. I’ll post an update when I know more. Thanks everyone,

James

JasCochran39939.4672569444

[Steve Crites]

James,

I must correct you.  She didn’t die.  She’s just very ill.

Get well soon!

Ringo

[Rich Bellefeuille]

James,

This is killing us guy! It’s getting to be like a soap opera! We’re all hoping for the best, but dang, tear that thing apart already so we can all know the outcome!

I’m almost ready to jump on a plane to Memphis with my tool kit in tow.

Still hoping for a low cost finding for you!

Rich

[James Cochran]

It’s still raining here . I have been in touch with a guy that builds engines for racing Corvettes. He only lives 15 miles away. He hasn’t seen the engine yet.

His gut feeling is a dry bearing. The engine had probably enough power to overcome it when running, but once I stopped it the starter didn’t have the power to turn it over. I think it will stop raining someday, thinking about building an ark. As soon as the rain stops I’ll slide back under move the pile of parts over and drop the pan and start on the bearings.  I found a great website on Bearing Blues, learned a lot….its’ got pictures  and analysis.

I’ll check the weather and see when it will stop raining, last I heard it was going thru the weekend. a week from Friday we start our week long road trip in the mountains at Big Canoe, GA. without the replica. That was to be our spring break to cruise with the TD. We already have reservations everywhere that are non-refundable and meeting up with other folks. It’s going to be a strange TD road trip in a Malibu

James

PS Ringo, you are right. I do stand corrected….one sick puppy in the driveway

JasCochran39939.8636458333

[James Cochran]

Update:

It finally quit raining for a few minutes . I dropped the pan. It is not the bearings. The engine must have been rebuilt by the previous owner, nice inside – really nice. New pistons and rods and bearings, they look great. The inside of the engine is absolutely spotless. The crankshaft is perfect. The pistons are not stuck, I moved them just slightly to know they are fine. The pan gasket was fresh and appeared new. The bearings had a nice clean film of oil, the crank is smooth and coated in oil just fine. I could see the film, I did not touch either surface, no need to. The crankshaft still will not turn. . Everything is back together inside the engine, except to torque. With that bearing worry out of the way, I grabbed the crankshaft and tried to turn it any bit that I could. I could only wiggle it back and forth about 1 degree each way. With that, I could hear a distinctive cluck coming from the clutch area at each end of the wiggle. I think my next step is to pull the engine and check that area behind the engine out fully. That is all that is left to stop the crank, I think. While the engine is apart,  do you think it is a good idea to replace the oil pump? Cheap to do it now, silly question .

Also does anyone have the torque specifications for the rods and mains for a 74 2.3L Ford Pinto/Mustang engine? Also, on my other roadster, the engine has hoist hooks, this engine does not. Does anyone have a recommendation of where to attach my hoist to the engine?

I am so glad it is not the bearings . It did not make sense to me how the engine idled so smoothly and had so much power that a bearing could instantly go. Once I get into the clutch area, I will start a fresh topic on that. Thanks for all the info and help, it’s means a great deal to me, and I really appreciate it.

Beside replacing the oil pump, is there anything else inside the engine that I need to address before closing it up? I will check the front and rear seals. I will clean up the pan, but there is not a speck of dirt in it now, bright and clean. The rods and crank look fresh and new, and I imagine the seals are new also. The screen on the oil pump looks old, but okay. I’ll replace the fuel pump, but that is exterior part. I’ll wrap this phase up on Saturday and may pull the engine on Sunday. I’ll remove the fiberglass body from the firewall forward, and probably just move the engine horizontal to clear the clutch area. I will also remove the radiator and chrome shell, don’t want to damage those.

Thanks everyone,

James

[Larry Murphy]

 James, Have you tried to turn the engine while someone holds the clutch pedal all the way to the floor? I remember from my early Chev. days that it was possible to put the transmission in 2 gears at the same time to make it easier to tighten the bolt that held the enclosed driveline U-joint to the trans mainshaft. This could only be done before the cover with the shifterforks was installed as the thing was designed to prevent it getting in 2 gears at once. Something may have happened inside the transmission which could be causing the problem. I may be way off but if the engine turns with the clutch pedal depressed it may help you to eliminate the clutch as being the problem. After all you have done ,this would be easy to try.Good Luck!!       Larry M.

[James Cochran]

Larry, I have not done this. Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that first thing in the morning (second thing – coffee is first )

James

PS, I do have the car in neutral, but the clutch petal has not been depressed. Thanks!

[Rich Bellefeuille]

James,

Nothing really to contribute. Just watching the progress with great anticipation. Can’t see how it could be the clutch area unless something broke inside the clutch housing and jammed the flywheel. Getting stuck in gear wouldn’t do it, because the starter is typically strong enough to move the car in gear (as I found out a while back when my clutch cable broke). The gears would have to be completely bound up (like first and reverse engaged at the same time) in order for the trans. to sieze. Depressing the clutch would definitely free the engine to turn in that case.

Well, enough blabbering. Good luck and keep us posted.

Rich

[Steve Crites]

James,

You’re narrowing it down.  Hope you find it’s no big problem.

According to Haynes torque specs;

connecting rods;  1st stage 28 lbs/ft  2nd stage 36 lbs/ft.

Main bearing caps;  1st stage 60 lbs/ft  2nd stage 85 lbs/ft

Good luck!

Ringo

 

Ringo39941.7658796296

[James Cochran]

Ringo,

Thanks for the specs. I looked all over the internet without any luck for a 74 model, only the newer engines. Depressing the clutch did not free the engine. My gut is now telling me that something has come loose like a bolt and has jammed the flywheel. My gut also tells me it’s dinner time (one of the few things my gut gets right ) As things progress I’ll let everyone know the outcome. I hate to tie up the site with my postings until I actually find the cause. I didn’t think it would be this extensive of a search, but the brainstorming and learning from everyone has been rewarding to me and hopefully others. This has given me a good reason to replace some parts and to know my engine is awesome inside.. Like everyone, we would all love to have a road machine we can count on without worry. I’ve learned a lot and know that teamwork works!

Thanks a million everyone. Hope to make it to Hot Springs this summer Ringo.

James

[Paul Mossberg]

James,

Your posts definitely do not “…tie up the site….”

That’s why we’re all here…to help…and to be helped.

It’s great to see. A year or so ago plus some, it seemed like it was always Mark and me answering questions.

Now there’s a bunch of guys and gals out there helping each other. Too bad we don’t all live in the same state.

The forum can’t gather in your garage to get our hands dirty. But we are able to help each other through this stuff.

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[James Cochran]

It’s still raining here, I need to get back on the Ark project.

I decided to not pull the engine until I get back from our TD road trip (without the TD) on the 23th. I have decided that it is in the clutch / flywheel area, 98.4% sure. The clutch petal has a different feel to it when depressed, can’t describe it, but just feels different, seems to act alright, just a bit different. I’ll wrap her back up in her temporary shelter on the driveway until I return home. I still need to torque the internal parts and replace the oil pump and close her up before I leave. I still have the valve cover off and the timing belt also to deal with. I’ll post my findings when I take out the engine.

Thanks Paul and everyone else, I appreciate you all.

James

[James Cochran]

Update:

I will be leaving Friday at noon for our weeklong TD road trip thru the mountains just north of Atlanta. Our problem is our TD is not running for this trip, so to summarize I went thru everything I could think of to find out why the engine locked up so suddenly and without the engine running. It was locked up when I tried to start it. This evening it was not raining , rare. So I slid under the car to stare at the open engine, again everything is perfect. I had torqued the bolts, thanks Ringo for the info. I once again tried to turn the crankshaft by hand, no go. I looked into the clutch area with a spot light, didn’t see anything wrong, from what I could see, it was perfect. I laid there for a few minutes, thinking about the situation and wondering why it would not turn. As I was about to slide out I reached up to try to turn the crankshaft for the 99th time by hand. It turned!! No problem, no fight, just turned nicely with pistons going up and down smoothly. I was shocked. I don’t understand it. I spun it around several times, couldn’t believe it. I came into the house just shaking my head. Since it was locked up before I used the spot light and then turnng freely after I used the spotlight, I think it maybe ‘saw the light’……sorry couldn’t resist.  I plan on leaving the engine open until I return on the 26th. My concern is that it did this and will probably do this again in the future, so I’ll think on it while I am gone. If anyone has any thoughts please let me know. The only thing that I noticed is there was a pool of oil under the engine. This oil flowed out of the oil pump during the past week while the pan was removed. That was the only thing different. Could the oil pump have locked up trying to compress the oil perhaps by a clogged line? And once that oil seeped out, it was free to turn? I am trying everything here. Does the oil pump have enough strength to stop an engine from turning over? I am planning on replacing it anyway, but just looking for some closure on this. Any thoughts would be appreciated, I have maxed my brain cells. Thanks guys,

James

[Steve Crites]

James,

Let’s see, the oil pump puked and now the engine turns?  Sounds like swine flu to me.

Ringo

Ringo39947.4629976852

[Author]

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