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Yesterday while checking things out i noticed a large block of steel welded under the front of the car
weight 3 to 4 hundred lbs .Just wondering was this something they did on LR’s or is this put on after it was bilt. I think it makes front a little low .I can see why they did it .The weight is intended to rebalance the car, after pulling off the steel VW body.
But 300 to 400 lbs sounds like a lot.Classic Roadsters Ltd. took a different approach with their Duchess. There is a fiberglass box behind the grill that holds about 150 lbs of sand.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Greg,
I think it is best to remove the weight and install a storage area under the hood and store your jack/tools/parts etc. anything w/ weight right behind the grill to make it useful weight. It works fine in my case – no issues and I have had my car up to 80 – 90 MPH a couple of times trying to catch the speedster guys ( Cory ) on I-81 by Carlisle.Paul,
Was that fiberglass box for the sand an actual part of the kit or did the asembly instructions tell you how to make it? Not interested in the sand but am interested in the box. I’m using two 20 pound rectangular steel plates that I drilled to match the original beetle front beam bolts. But the box in behind the radiator shell would give about 10-15 pounds storage for jack etc. On long trips I could substitute the box for a portable 5 gallon fuel can.Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shackmine appears as it is welded from underneath. Maybe it doesn’t doesn’t weigh as much as i originally thought 2 plates welded together 2 inches each 18 inches by 18 inches.
Allen,
The box was with the kit.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Greg, I ‘m not absolutely sure , but I think London Roadster only used the weights on the custom chassis cars , the ones with coilover shock front suspension. I have owned two London Roadsters both with the VW chassis and VW torision bar suspension and neither of them had any weight added. I seem to remember some othe LR owner referring to weight added to the front and I think his car was a custom chassis model.If the weights were welded on during the chassis construction,it may be difficult to remove them without weakening the assembly.I saw one LR that had adjustable coilovers .That allowed for adjustment of the ride height and spring stiffness .
Allen,
Pictures of my trunk are in my gallery…The “box” is covered by carpet at the front of the trunk.PMOSSBERG2015-05-08 13:30:29
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
No extra weight in BCW VW-based cars. Estimate the distribution is about 33 percent front, 67 percent rear. Handling is pretty good since removing the small torsion leaves & fitting new tires. Just a touch of understeer still, where I’d prefer just a little oversteer. I pushed her pretty hard on the autocross track at Carlisle and could not get the front to plow noticeably or the back end to break loose.
In general, less weight is better. If you have a beam front end it weighs a bit. That and the battery should give you enough ballast. I’ve got a box with tools in mine, good for another 20 pounds or so, low and close to the nose.
BTW: 300 pounds would be like putting a Subaru engine in front. No way you’ve got that much.
edsnova2012-11-27 16:04:58
Mine has coil over shocks. No adjustments that i can see.This might be a dumb question.Is it possible to pop front end off the ground if weight wasn’t there.
The weight in the front is for balance and steering. Can’t turn a corner if you don’t have enough weight for the front tires to grip.
Well i don’t have a VW powered car but i was thinking would not lead shot, not sand take up less space ,maybe by less than 1/2 ? or lead plates bolted on the frame. freeing up space . Dan
Yes, you need some weight up front and, yes, you could, theoretically, pull wheelies without enough. Our Speedster boy Cory Drake has allegedly done so, and he had the scrapes on his car’s backside to at least suggest he was truthin’ about it.
I believe that my car, which is tail heavy, handles OK because
1. Turning moderately at speed requires only the weight that’s over the front wheels, which I estimate at 350 pounds each, and
2. hard, sharp turns are accomplished usually during braking, when the balance shifts notably forward. That tends to plant the front tires just a bit harder than they are when the brakes aren’t on, and that actually aids handling.This of course means driving the TD a bit differently than a front engine car, when you’d want to brake real hard before the turn and then stay off the brakes–even accelerate–out of it. That’s because a front engined car has 50 percent or move over the front wheels already, so when you hit the brakes the back end wants to slide out…
That can be helpful, or not, depending on whether you know how to drive.
My particular TD handles pretty well with no extra weight. I believe that any car shaped roughly like ours and powered from the rear with a light engine will be able to be made safe with a 35-65 distribution, front to back.
If Bill has other thoughts about this I’d be inclined to take his advice over mine.
Balance is everything. The weight added to your front end is essential. Ed, with your estimate of 35/65, perhaps more weight up front would be beneficial. When I modified the suspension on my TD, I first took it to S&W Speed Shop, a local race car shop and had it scaled. It was lifted up and sat down on 4 individual scales under the tires. It’s been too many years to get my hands on the actual numbers, but with the car fully loaded with tools, jack, spare tire, full tank of fuel and my fat ass it weighed in at apx. 2400 lbs. balance came in at 51% front, 49% rear. Individual corner numbers were provided, but left/right numbers were close. That’s why I AutoX with a full tank of fuel and my spare mounted. Balance. Turn the wheel and the car responds. I wonder if you increased the weight up front on the VW chassis, you’d get a similar result. Have you noticed any difference in the way the front end gripped when it’s loaded for a road trip?
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Like I said, Bill: when I got the car with hard old tires, inflated high, with the full springs in front (cut and turned) I could and did lock the front brakes too easily and even easy turns meant the front end would plow. Understeer.
It felt way too light up front and very dangerous generally.
Now, with the springs properly matched to the weight of the front end, the tires reasonably new, the air in them at 16 pounds or so, the car feels “right”–whether I’ve got luggage in front, a passenger or not. The brakes work. I can lock the wheels but I’ve got to try hard to do it. Car stops pretty well and, most important, it tends to go where I point it instead of just trying to keep going straight.
I know I didn’t show great numbers on the auto-X. But it was my first run at it and–this is important–I was concerned about the carb backfiring & etc. I was not pushing to the limits because I did not want to break the car I needed to drive home in.
I do think I could get a bit more handling out of this car, but I doubt seriously that putting dead weight in front would improve it. Remember, all the Porsche 356s’s and 911s have a similar weight distribution to the rear-engined VW/TD kits. They handle pretty well even with a big rear bias. Some say it’s because a 50-50 distribution ain’t all that.
It may be the best you can hope for with a front-engined, read-drive vehicle, but I don’t think it’s necessarily ideal for going through corners because, dynamically, as soon as you hit the brakes the weight shifts forward, and your 50-50 distribution becomes something like 70-30. That’s why you can make any front engine, rear-drive car oversteer easily, but at the limits of traction you’ll get total understeer.
A 30-70 balanced car, by contrast, will get close to 50-50 distribution when it’s being hauled down in a turn. You don’t tend to lose rear wheel traction (unless you throw a lot of gas at it which, in my 50- ft-lb case, still won’t usually do it) and the fronts have all the bite they need but not too much. The balance comes when you need it, during the hard corner, and is more variable (and controllable) with the brake and the gas pedal.
None of this means Bridget is going to out-handle Bill’s car, of course. The limits of the VW pan–chassis flex, compromises with the trailing arm setup in front and the IRS in back, the fact that I’ve got little skinny tires, my car’s lack of torque, and the fact that I’m not much of a driver–all conspire to keep my car behind Bill’s in almost any racing type situation.
I do think that making the car generally lighter, even at the cost of a couple percent weight bias one way or the other, may tend to help on the auto-x track. Hope I get a chance to run without needless junk like bumpers, windshield, spare tire & etc. next spring.
Greg’s car may or may not need any extra weight up front. Whatever he does though, there’s no way he needs to get anywhere near a 50-50 static balance to have a safe car. I still think it’s probably best to shave weight as much as possible and make sure the spring rates are appropriate for what is over them.
I have an ’86 LR with custom chassis etc with the weights in the front ..I toook off one weight in the front end.This lifted the front which stopped her from bottoming out and scrubbing the fenders when hitting dips in the pavement here on Oak Island. I asked about the replacements for the coil over shocks but didnt get any answere so decided to go the weight removal route..Btw I have no garage or any work area here at home in OKII think I posted pics earlier and Ed gave me some suggestions etc.I am happy with the way she is now although I drive her no more than 50mph-and dont plan to go to VIR with her!
Being an old guy I drive Olive like an ol lady !!lol
jebarry2012-11-28 12:18:17
Another great photo, John. Keep them coming.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"
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