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Pulled the valve covers today and got out the feel-her gauge for the first time on Bridget. All but one of the valves were tight. Not terribly so; seemed to range up from about .003. But very glad I got in there and backed them all out to .006, even though I skinned knuckles on both hands.
Gapped the points to .016 while I was at it (they were tight too), changed the oil (Royal Purple 20-50 synthetic) and the screen and both valve cover gaskets. Hoping I maybe stopped the leak That’s been gumming up my garage floor since the last oil change. Or maybe before. Turned out the drain plug was missing that little brass washer.
Couldn’t drive her ’cause it was raining. Next time driving it’ll be to the tire shop for four new ones and an alignment.
Carlisle: 18 days.
edsnova 40664.8541087963 Ed,
Make that five new tires.
Hopefully, you’ll never need it. But please, replace the spare?
PMOSSBERG40665.030787037
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Thanks, Paul. The spare is actually only about 3 years old, according to the code date on the sidewall. The other four are different, presumably much older, though I’ve not been able to get a bead on just how old. Possibly 2003, probably 1993.
Ok! You may proceed.
Your life is safe. My work here is done.
PMOSSBERG40665.4079976852
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Pall said:
Your life is safe. My work here is done.
Good call “Oldy-wan”
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackEd, very odd that the valve lash would get tighter. Maybe they were way too tight from the last adjustment?
Do you have a good dwell meter? That is the best way to check the points after they are manually gapped. The dwell (points gap) will affect the timing too.
If found a great synthetic to use in my Beetle motors. I use Royal Purple in all my newer, roller cammed stuff. Beetle’s have flat tappet cams and need a zinc package (ZDDP) in the oil. Amsoil makes an oil called “Premium Protection” that is made specifically for older, flat tappet engines. It is avalable in 10w-40 and 20w-50 viscosities.
A stock Beetle engine uses 85 oz. (2 qts/21 oz) so, a case will last a while. No oil filter, so I still change it every 1,500 miles. My “tweaked” Beetle motor has a remote filter. So, I change it every 2,500. It holds 117 oz (3 qts/21 oz).
Unfortunately air cooled motors are so loose at cold start, you get a lot of fuel washed past the rings into the crankcase. No matter what, the oil doesn’t last long before it’s contaminated.
Thread drift warning!
Hey newkitman…
I like “Oldy-Wan”. It’s much better than “moldy one”
I could have gone all Yoda…
Safe your life is. Done my work here is.
OK, back to Ed’s regularly scheduled topic thread….
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Yeah, they could have been set too tight by the last guy. Muir says .006 but warns that the old book said .004. Think the #1 exhaust was about that, as were several of the others. The number three exhaust was a little tighter. Since that’s the hottest one, my understanding is that the valve stem might stretch a little over time, or just settle more deeply into the seat, both of which would tend to reduce the gap between it and the rocker arm.
And yeah, dwell meter now on my shopping list and maybe a strobe too. I just gapped the points with a feeler gauge and she runs nice now–no more little backfires on decel, which it used to do sometimes. But I have no idea what the actual timing is, static, idle or advanced. I’ll get to that before we do any serious racing.
I used to have all those old school tune-up tools. No recollection who I lent ’em to.
Still drips a bit of oil from at least one of the right-side, forward pushrod tubes. Not too much, so far at least, so I feel pretty good.
And yeah, no more synthetic oil. Actually picked up the RP synth on accident–didn’t read the label closely enough. Paid the price too, quite literally.
Ed,
Comparing regular oil to the synthetic, how would you rate the cooling ability. I ask because I have heard that the synthetics don’t break down with the heat of the air cooled VWs but the engine seems to run hotter with the synthetics.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackRoyal Purple is by far the BEST of the synthetics. In addition, there is no comparision between a good synthetic and the best organic oil.
They lubricate better, transfer heat better, do not change viscosity in a WIDE temperature range. I use synthetics in EVERY system of EVERY vehicle I own.
The VW engine is air-cooled (larger tolerances cold due to heat expansion) and has no oil filter (short change intervals). These are drawbacks to ANY oil you use in them…they all get fuel washed due to the large cold engine tolerances. They are also a flat tappet design and require a zinc (ZDDP) package that is no longer in most off-the-shelf oils. To me it’s still worth it to use the best oil I can, even if the change intervals are not increased by using it.
Today’s API SM and new SN are cat piss, but work well with roller tappet engines. Also, if the factory recommended viscosity oil is not used in some of today’s engines , they will malfunction and cause the idiot light to trigger. In engines with with variable valve timing, they almost all require the API SN cat piss or they will malfunction.
newkitman: “seems” to run hotter is a guess. Unless you have pyrometer to measure temperatures, the temperature can’t be accurately measured.
Pink MG…thanks for the info. Wanted to be sure the synthetic oil was good enough for our VW engines. My TD will become my daily driver and I’m planning on several long (400-500 miles) trips with her. Your info has helped a lot. Thanks.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackJust be sure that the synthetic you choose has a zinc package (ZDDP). Nothing in Wal-Mart, NAPA, Auto Zone, etc. does.
A local performance shop I’ve been using for years sells several different synthetics with the ZDDP…Joe Gibbs Racing (hot rod), Amsoil Premium Protection, RedLine, etc.
Oils with ZDDP usually have an “off road only” designation printed on them by law. Don’t worry about that. Use it in your VW power plant.
BTW, my Beetle with the “real” remote oil filter runs 15 degrees cooler than my stock oiled Beetle. It holds a quart more oil is probably the reason.
And here I thought the purple stuff had that zinc stuff. Geez. And for the price it ought to have flakes of real gold in it as well.
The car took three quarts to get to the fill line on the dip stick. She’s got no remote cooler or oil filter I can see, so I wonder what that’s about.
Aftermarket dipstick or the dipstick tube is too long?
A stock Beetle hold 85 oz. If it’s overfilled, it’ll just push it out the crankcase behind the crank pulley or up and out the breather tube on the generator/alternator stand.
Either way it’s just a fact of life for VW’s unless you install a good crankcase breather set up. A lot of people use aftermarket air cleaners on these engines…usually disconnecting the breather tube that goes to the air cleaner. This tube is what relieved crankcase pressure so they wouldn’t “blow” oil. The crankcase fumes/pressure were relieved by the low pressure area caused by the carb inhaling. No tube, the pressure has to go somewhere, so out the pulley end of the crank (no seal there) or out the breather tube.
As far as oil goes, not even Rotella has zinc anymore. You have to read the bottle…don’t use SL, SM, SN…no ZDDP.
Great info for the oil change. I am going to do some searching to find a supplier for ZDDP oil. I purchased my TD just 2 weeks ago and am going to change the oil due to not knowing when it was changed last.
I will also look out for the crank case breather. Where is it located? I am also new to VW motors. Will be asking questions from time to time.
Get the Orange book or blue book depending on year of motor. Also pick up a copy of John muirs book. These are priceless. And by all means don’t let fear slow you down. It can always be fixed and the people who origanally built these were on the most part no smarter than you or I. It is all very elimentary (Iknow Spelling) thats what I mean.
Valve adjustment is the holy grail of keeping a type 1 motor alive, right after changing the oil and cleaning the screen. John Muir has a neat valve adjustment procedure in VW for the Compleat Idiot. Just make sure to press the pushrod side of the rocker arm to seat the pushrod before you use the feeler gauge.
Valves were traditionally set at .006 except for some very early engines. VW changed valve lash in 1971 to .004 to address customer complaints about the clattering noise, particularly at startup. That gave rise to a lot of valve jobs as .004 was the absolute minimum lash. A smidgeon less and the valve was toast. VW went back to .006. I regularly ran Type Ones past 100k, even in vans. I would set the valves at a tight .006. They would clatter at startup and go to a softer purr when the engine warmed up. A little noise told me that the valves were seating completely. Once they are set, a check the morning after an oil change will keep the valves set. Keep an eye on #3 exhaust. It sits in the airstream behind the factory oil cooler and runs hotter. It erodes the valve seat quicker than the other valves. Valves have to be checked COLD. That’s not after the car has set for a couple of hours. That’s the next day. The case is aluminum/magnesium. The pushrods are steel. There is a lot of expansion at different rates in the engine. Everything has to be stone cold to set the valves properly.
Keep something in mind about VW valves. They are actuated by solid lifters; steel shafts that are pushed up directly by the cam. Valve seats erode slowly, particularly exhaust valve seats. Over time, VW valves tighten up.
Then there are the heads. Aluminum. Head bolts are steel. Over time the heads squash. You have to check the torque on the head bolts, nuts in the case of a VW. That’s easy to do with the lower row. In a Beetle you have to drop the engine to reach the top row. They may be reachable in a TD. Loose heads cause tight valves too.
That’s why you have to keep an eye on VW valves. Clicking is good. Chuffing is not.
It’s a terrific engine. But it’s like a baby. It purrs when it’s happy, and makes all kinds of noise when it’s cranky. You have to keep checking on it to keep it happy.
To comment on the motor oil issue, I just read the article on Classic Oils’ site and was convinced to buy some for my old Type 1 engine. Great advice on adjusting the valves. Make sure you put it in a position to be worked on the night before you do the adjustment. – From the John Muir book.
We’ve been reinventing a procedure for adjusting valves when there is an excellent discussion in the “Tech Articles for VW’s” section of this forum. It was written by Sean Bartnik on Sept 24, 1997.
Did you know that there is a dot on the edge of the fan pulley indication TDC?
I don’t usually read the directions first either.
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