Whatzit? (& oil pump question)

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  • #233902
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Just to the right of the oil pump in front of the crank pulley is a brass plug looking thingy.  It screws in horizontally, from the rear.  Never noticed it until yesterday when I cleaned  my engine and was checking to see whether I had 6 or 8mm oil pump bolts (I’ve got 8).  What is the plug for? 

    Also, I am considering putting in a 26mm geared Schadek.  What do you guys think?  Or should I install a pump with a spin on filter?  I have a stock ’69 1500cc engine as far as I know.  But, my oil pressure running Castrol 20w50 is only about 22# @ 3000rpm with the engine warmed and oil temp @ 175.  Or, should I just go watch the UNC basketball game and not to worry?

    #248562
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Could be one of the pressure relief valves, but I think those are usually underneath. Probably just a plug. This guy seems to think it’s a good spot to put a temp sensor.

    22 pounds pressure at 3k rpm sounds a bit low to me. I believe the rule of thumb is about 10 pounds per thousand RPM. That said, I’d check the gauge reading somehow before assuming the pump or other stuff was shot.

    That said, I kind of like the idea of a full flow case with a real automotive oil filter, if only for convenience sake. Turns your 1000-mile oil change interval into more like a 2-3000 mile interval. Also gives you an extra quart capacity, which can’t hurt. If I had my engine out and crank pulley off I’d probably do it.

    #248563
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Ed, From what I read, it seems that to install a full flow filter, you need to split the case and drill and tap the engine case for the return from the filter.  Is there another way?  (1500SP with stock muffler)

    #248564
    Paul Mossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    This is all you need:

    http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10- 5385

    Full flow oil pump with spin on oil filter….

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #248565
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    I think the pre 1970 (single relief) cases need some futzing to make them truly full-flow, but I don’t think any require more than some care with the drill and a good air compressor to blow the aluminum chips out of any holes you’re tapping. No need to split the case. But I know way less than Paul & most other VW guys.

    edsnova40912.6116550926

    #248566
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Paul, I just talked to Chris at Cip1.  Nope, won’t fit with the stock exhaust.  But would with headers (not an option on a TDr) and would with the EMPI 3487 so,………hmm how bad do I want it?  ….hmmm

    #248567
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    EMPI 3487 is like $80 and makes the exhaust look like a TD exhaust. Same size and location. Doesn’t hurt power & not too loud either.

    Only trouble is getting it on. Or, actually, getting the old one off without busting a stud off the head. If your pipes are new that should not be a problem.

    edsnova40912.7184259259

    #248568
    Paul Mossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    I currently have a four outlet “Monza” type exhaust and the spin on fits.

    I’ve got a new Empi 3487 in a box awating installation on the new engine

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #248569
    Mike
    Participant

    @mike-n-scarlett

    I have the same four oulet Paul and am changing out to the EMPI 3487 very soon. I think the single outlet looks great on the VW TDs and have admired it since Ed first posted photos of his. It is a shame you cant get it in ceramic. I plan to knock the factory paint off it and repaint it with high temp paint before installation. On my EMPI 4 tip the factory paint burned off quick and I had to paint it on the car. I wouldnt care about the paint , but you can see the muffler on my CMC/FF.

    #248570
    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Ed – with the EMPI 3487 muffler can you still use the heater boxes? You’d think that here in GA I wouldn’t need them but a typical winter we get down to the 30s during the day and 20s at night and heat is a nice thing to hve driving to worlk in the early mornings and colder winter days.

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #248571
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Ed, Since there are so many of us with a similar interest in a 3487 with a spin on filter, and you have a 3487 installed.  And since you expressed an interest in a spin on filter adapter, wouldn’t it make most sense for you (since you are still gainfully employed) to buy and install one and then let us know how it went and what it did to your oil pressure and engine temperature?  You would make a lot of fellow Forum members happy and bring us out of the dark.  (ps. make sure that you get one of the adapters that has a built in pressure relief.

    #248572
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    HAR! Roy. One project at a time. I did install the Gene Berg oil temp dipstick late last season (thanks once again, Schu, for selling it), and so now I’ll at least know if/when she runs hot. Next up on that engine is setting the carb right so she’s not so damn rich–maybe then I’ll get better than the 24 mpg I’ve gotten since I got the car 2 years ago. I’ve got blessedly good oil pressure so far and, since my scheduled oil changes put me under the car only once during the season (and once in the winter) I’m not in any hurry to mess with it. If & when I do though, y’all will be the first to know.

    Allen: Heater boxes: check. The rear J-pipes stay put with this rig; it’s not a header. (Here’s the way too detailed step-by-step installation saga). Only thing I lost was the little pre-heat clamshells that fit over the rear pipes and heat the flexi-hoses. Just run those right over/past the new pipe and it works just as well.

    Mike: very good call on the re-paint. I didn’t bother and I’m sure I’ll pay for that haste. So far, though, so good.

    Paul: my fingers are crossed in hope that you get your car back very soon.

    edsnova40912.9423958333

    #248573
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Thought I’d bring you up to date.  I’ve decided that for less than the price of a fillup, I’d just install a new oil pump and see what that does for my pressure.  I have convinced myself that my old pump is part of my low oil pressure problem.  We’ll see.  Christmas expenses have pushed my 3487 exhaust with spin on filter to later.  FYI I have ordered (4 day delivery) a Schadek 26mm pump from a local Advance auto.  If you want to read up on oil pumps, see http://www.billsbangers.com/vwbilltodd/oilpumps.html

    I’ll try my best to compare my old with the new Schadek later.

    #248574
    Mike
    Participant

    @mike-n-scarlett

    Royal,

    since this thread was started I have been leaning toward the pump/filter combo so I have been trying to find out info at the samba.As with most things VW they are split about 50/50 on this subject. The only combo they recommend is the Maxi 2 from CB performance. They also say to leave the oil strainer in to catch larger particles before they reach the pump, so the screen would still need to be taken out and cleaned at least every other oil change. I think you picked an excellent pump in the Schadek. It is also recommended to stay with the 21-26mm pump in a stock engine unless you have a full flow system with remote cooler. If you run multi Viscosity oils in the 40-50 range the larger gear pumps can blow cooler seals or even the cooler itself (stock engine non remote cooler and lines). I still think the combo is a good idea, but am not sure if I am going to change out to it. I for sure am going to put the EMPI 3487 exhaust on my car before spring.

    #248575
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    My new pump arrived this afternoon.  Had a heck of a time getting the pulley off the crankshaft.  Had to borrow a special VW puller and it came off in less than 60 seconds.  The new Schadek is 26mm gears and the old pump was 21mm.  The gear to housing clearances on both pumps was the same at .003.  The old pump backlash was .010 but the new pump backlash between gears was less than .0015 (my smallest feeler.  That made me feel good that I wasn’t just wasting my time and $40. 

    But the real eye opener was on the backside where the tang fits into the camshaft:

     

    In case you can’t see it above, here’s a close up:

    And the old pump:

    Kinda scary eh?  Not too long before this pump would have failed due to the drive pawl/tang being sheared off.  I sure didn’t expect to find this.  Within a whisker of a catastrophic pump failure and total loss of oil flow.  So, I’m really happy that I decided to do an exploratory and will wait until tomorrow (hopefully) for the install of the new pump. 

    #248576
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Guess that I should have mentioned that the spec for gear to case (as mentioned in the article linked above) is .003 and the backlash is .004. 

    #248577
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    Luck was with you.

    #248578
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    I’d have a look at the part that engages with that nubby thing. I believe that’s the camshaft in this case?

    #248579
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Ed, Re the nubby thing: I’ll check out the cam before installing it.  Do you, or anybody else have any suggestions as to whether I need to prime the pump before starting?   I uised to use STP a lot on rebuilds that I did and I was planning on “packing” the pump and gears with STP before mounting, but there is probably a better way. 

    #248580
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    I think sop it with oil on the install. See also John Muir’s book page 287.

    Don’t think there’s a way to prime the whole system like we used to do with Chevy’s & such–that trick where you put a flat blade on a long extension and attach that to a power drill and spin the oil pump with that through the distributer hole.

    Man, I always though that was cool. Loved watching oil erupt through the rocker arms when the engine was just that close to being ready to start up for the first time.

    #248581
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    My final (hopefully) report on this thread.  New pump is in and I took her for a ride.  Same oil.  Same outside temp.  Pressure @ 3000rpm is up to about 34# and the engine seems to really like 30-34# pressure which is where it stays at anything over 2000rpm.  At hot idle, my pressure is up from about 6-8# to 19-20#.  (I should mention that I set my idle at about 1050 which is a little high but it’s where I like it.)  Pressure is a little over 10# per 1000rpm.  The worst part of doing this yourself is pulling the crank pulley off (special puller needed but you could adapt a 2 jaw gear puller), getting the old pump out (the clearances pump body to engine case are very tight) and reinstalling all than damn tin (a real PITA).  All’s well and now I’m now so worried about and not planning on doing a split case overhaul.  Maybe I’ll get a good nights sleep tonight.   

    #248582
    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Great job.    

    Fun tearing into a VW engine huh! Its way easier working on the engine when its removed and on a stand. Glad alls well!

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #248583
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Good on ya, Roy!

    #248584
    Mike
    Participant

    @mike-n-scarlett

    Royal thats good news when your work pays off like it did. Just curious as to what your engine temp was and what weight oil you are using. Sounds like you earned the good nights sleep.

    #248585
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Engine temp was 170, and I’ve been running 20w50 Castrol GTX.

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