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Hello to all. I recently bought a CMC Chevettte based TD kit through Ebay. This is an untouched kit from 1987 and is 95% there. Missing a few items but pretty good. It came with a very heavy frame and is meant to use all the parts from a Chevette as a direct bolt-on. After getting an education on the Chevette and getting the overheavy and clumsily built frame evaluated, I have decided to make this car using Mustang II donor car instead. My goal is to make a light car that is real fun to drive, fair on gas, handles well on curves, and can accelerate in traffic. Will not be used in drag races or parking lot races.
I am trying to decide on a donor Mustang with a 302 V8 or a 2.8 V6.
What are the pros/cons of each approach?
Will V8 fit? Too Heavy?
Should I stay with Ford or go Chevy?Welcome aboard Gabor!
This site ( http://www.carnut.com/specs/engdim.html ) says the 302 is:29″ long to the pulleys27″ high, oil pan to air cleaner22″ wideI found these “approximations” for the 2.8 in a Ford forum ( http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=129245 ):23.5″ long, flywheel to front pulley face26.0″ high, stock oil pan to top of carb, not counting air filter30.0″ wide, to the outside edge of pulleys (A/C to alternator)23.0″ wide, to the valve cover edgesI know some replica manufactuers had front engine V6’s, so I’m pretty sure that will fit.We’ve seen discussions here about V8s. So I think that’ll fit too, although it will likely be a squeeze.Ford vs. Chevy is a debate we should probably avoid! LOL! Purely your choice. 🙂These are lightweight cars…your engine choice will be a very personal decision…but I would lean towards the V6 as the better all-around compromise for the use you describe.But what do I know? I have a 1776 VW engine hanging off the back of my TD!Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
I just got back from the bank. While there, a lady stopped me took some pictures and said that she would like to surprise her husband and buy him a TDr for Christmas. She mentioned that he has had (recently) a Mustang, a GTO and a Chevelle. He has always been into muscle cars. I told her to find another surprise present.
What is the matter with the installed Chevette?I am not trying to talk you out of your project as you envision it. But my VW powered TD is “real fun to drive, fair on gas, handles well on curves, and can accelerate in traffic”. While MiGi is not fast, it is quick. It handles well, better and is quicker than any of my Sunbeam Alpines, is close to my TR6 (because it is so light). I would not feel comfortable driving it (fast) in traffic at 70+mph. But at <60 it is a blast. These cars are not meant to be luxury touring vehicles.A friend of mine put an V8 in a TR6 and ruined it. It was great at the drag strip but almost undriveable on twisty roads because of the extra front end weight. Total transformation, it was simply no longer a sports car.What car have you driven that you would you like your project to drive like? I know that I probably have not helped answer your question but IMHO sports cars of the era do not lend themselves to V8 or V6 conversions. I would be more inclined to “hop up” the Chevette a bit.In reading my own response to your question, I was tempted to delete the whole thing, but decided to send anyway. Here is my opinion. I am sure that you will get responses that say that I don’t know what I’m talking about, and they may be right.Welcome to our TDreplica club. We love our cars and love to help out a newcomer. There are a bunch of knowledgeable guys on here, and somebody knows the answer to almost any question you can pose.Please sign in. Go to the home page, then the registry thread. Then TDregistry. Also, please send us some pictures.My favorite car to drive? Without question it was a Jensen Healey. The engine wore out at 40K and it would have cost a fortune to rebuild, so I installed a Capri 2600 V6. Wow! 0 to 100 in a flash, 100 MPH in any curve short of a hairpin. Unfortunately the rest of the car was British, so it all fell apart. I’m leaning towards a 2.8 V6 because its a 60 degree, so relatively narrow. It must be an auto, because the well is only wide enough for two pedals.
Why not a Chevette?
Plus side: Bolt on front end with Rack/Pinion, narrow radiator, bolts to frame I already have
Negative side: Hard to find complete car, Most are overpriced. Torque tube rear end, 1600 cc engine, Frame that came with car is waaay too heavy for the application. Looks like somebody that had no knowledge of frame design was given a big pile of 1/8 in 2X4 square tube and 1/4 inch flat stock and got paid by the pound for the finished product.
Another reason: Open the hood of the finished product and when you have a V6 (or V8) it will have that “Cool” look, not so much with a miniature 4 banger.
I do plan on doing a build report on this forum so you guys can laugh at my ongoing misery…..I promise you…any laughter will occur for one of only two possible reasons:
“There, but for the grace of God, go I!”OR“Been there, done that!”Whatever decision you make, you’ll find lots of knowledge, excperience and enthusiams here!Roy, trying convincing the Cobra gang that “British sports car + American V8” isn’t a good idea!PMOSSBERG2012-10-25 15:01:29
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul you got me on the Cobra. But back to the thread. I (5 years ago) sold my Jensen Healey. It was easily also my favorite to drive with its 16 valve dohc Lotus engine. I rebuilt the engine and it was a lot quicker and faster than my TR6. More fun than my 911. My JH just rusted out and I got tired of duct taping it together. Terrible sheet metal. But, I once heard the JH described a go cart with a license plate. Very accurate.
If you’re intent on an engine conversion, I once considered the Buick 3.8 V6. They’ve been around since the 60’s and the Grand National turbo’s were wicked and the supercharged versions were put in everything.
I’ve also been told I’m crazy.Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"I found a complete 1963 Skylark with Aluminum V8 in Delaware but have decided that getting a Mustang II donor would be easier. That way I can use everything but the body. The one thing I will have to change using the M II is the rear springs. No way those long leafs will fit. Planning to do trailing arm with coil springs and panhard bar instead.The real driver in picking a donor was the track width. With the fenders needing 64″ inside to inside, it pretty much limited track to 56″. Will need aftermarket wheels with some positive offset. Parts for rebuilding a 1963 215 was much more costly than a Ford.
I didn’t read all of your post about the Buick V6. Yes it was a monster, especially for a 6 cyl. Also the 200-4R transmission that went with it can handle 1000HP if you can afford the build-up. I’m doing the low-bucks approach however. I already blew my budget with this truck:
PMOSSBERG2012-10-25 17:57:49
Just took at look at El Scrocho!
Nice truck! Nicely done!Can’t wait to see what you do with your MG!Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
It should have been spelled El Scorcho (the name on it before I bought it) , but the one thing you cannot change in a stream is the original title.
Wow! You obviously have a lot of talent and drive. Nice job on the truck. I’m betting that your TD will be a dazzler. (Not fair – to ask your first question without telling us that you have undertaken major conversions and frame up restorations before.) I’m surprised that you found an aluminum V8. As I’m sure you know, they are scarce as hen’s teeth. I wanted to put one in a Sunbeam Alpine (make it a GM powered Tiger), but got scared away.
Fiberfab Ford kits had you cutting the rear springs and using them as a sort of trailing arm. A strange arrangement you can find in the “Download Manual” section. Personally, I ditched that and built a three link with a panhard rod and installed coil overs.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Looks like we got a real maker here. Welcome, Gabor. Bill’s car is our
closest analogue to what you’re doing, and if I’m not mistaken he did it
all himself.Someone on the board bought and sold a kit with a 60-degree Ford V6 in
it last year and I thought that car was the bomba. I’d agitate against
the V8 swap unless you either source a flathead V8-60 or build a
Buick/Rover and, since you asked, will also advise you to eschew the
automatic trans, no matter how reasonable and practical.Gotta row your own in a TD, IMHO–even though you’ll have absolutely no room for a third pedal.
The problem was solved by Abingdon engineers thusly: they eliminated the gas pedal in favor of a chicklet-sized roller wheel. AND YOU CAN TOO!
There was a guy on the board last year–not around lately–with a
Chevette based BCW car. His had the 4-speed and it worked fine, even
with all three pedals. He is not a big dude though.Another of our members (Mark W) bought a small-block-powered TD replica a
year or so ago. Pretty badass with no side covers on the hood. But
we’ve not heard much lately from him.I’ve always thought it’d be fun to install a Volvo P-1800 engine in a TD
Replicar, as often was done to the originals once the xpag crank broke.
The engine came with twin SUs (or looked like it did). Supposedly the
Volvo 4 speed with overdrive was handy, too, given the gearing in the
old MGs. But I doubt that mill is readily available these days.Final impractical idea to throw at you, since I’m too poor in both money, time and skill to do it meself: Quad4 conversion.
Right? 200hp and 7000rpm straight from gramma’s car in the bone yard.
Pull the FI and plastic cover off, bolt some Webers on it and call it an
Offy. You can tell people it’s the long-lost first iteration of the Beavis Special.OK, shutting up now.
I have a neighbor who scratch builds cars. He suggested a Mercruiser 3 liter four banger. Stock at 140 hp. Problem with that one is that there are no intakes or exhaust manifolds. You have to build it yourself. On the positive side, it has the typical Chevy transmission bolt spacing. I also considered an MGB as a donor. Positive: Lots of rust-buckets around, easy to remove front crossmember, strong narrow rear. Negatives: kingpin suspension, box-shocks. Another interesing small engine is the Chevy 2.8 V6. GM has a long block that is specifically aimed at people upgrading their tired 2.8s with a 160 HP 3.4 V6 Crate Engine(12363230). You just use all of the parts from an old 2.8 to complete this long block.
I finally settled on the Mustang II because of the track, cross-member, rack, Cologne V6 and tons of aftermarket for the front suspension. I actually bought a ’75 V6 donor car sight unseen. This car was stored in an apartment building basement for 17 years. Always kept indoors. I took it home and cleaned it up, turned out its a 302. Looks much too good. I just don’t have the heart to strip it, so I’m selling this one and looking for another donor.Here ya go. Maybe.
I’m a big fan of the MustangII front suspension, but with a chevette based kit you’d have
to alter the mounting points to fit it. I suppose it could be done, but is
all the extra work worth it?Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"I’m going to scrap the whole front of the Chevette frame. It’s way too clumsy and has about three times the metal as it needs. The Mustang only needs a pair of frame arms 24″ inside width. Much simpler. I’ll post some pictures when I start the build stream.
Fantastic. Look forward to seeing the conversion.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"I just discovered the Fiberfab Pinto manual in the download section. This looks like the Pinto/Mustang II version of the same kit that I have. It looks pretty much like what I want to do with this kit. However when I got to what they did with the rear suspension, I don’t think it looks like it would perform like the sports car feel that I want. Cutting the rear springs in half and making a three point out of it looks like it would be loose and unpredictable. I was thinking of making either trailing arms or getting a 4 point from Welders Series and converting over to coil springs. Anyone out there have experience with the Pinto/Mustang rear using the leafs cut in half? Does it handle well? How about a four point?
I ran that configuration for a few years. It wallowed like a drunken sailor until I installed a panhard rod. It was an improvement but the remaining leafs split. Using the same mounting points I installed adjustable rods with heim joints at each end to locate the axle. A square tube laid across the frame rails above the axle provided a mounting point for the coil overs. I’ll pull a wheel and take photos. Probably won’t be till(if) I get back from VA Beach. Judging by the photos you provided from your last project, you’ll probably find my solution a bit crude, but it works. I’m sure it can be improved upon.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"I don’t like the idea of just one bar on each side, since it doesn’t make the rear maintain a constant angle.
I like this as a possible 4 link.
http://www.welderseries.com/blog/online-store/rear-four-link-kit-parallel-universal/
It already has mounting points for coil-overs and I would need to add a panhard somehow. Best part is that it’s adjustable, so I can get the right shaft angle.
Irony is that I can probably get a whole car for that price.That’s a nice kit. I just needed something simple. As far as maintaining pinion angle, the upper link keeps that in check. I used the existing Fiberfab mount.
Looking forward to seeing photos as your build progresses.Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"
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