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Okay all you VW kit builders. Need to put your collective minds and knowledge togther and come up with a consensus. Whether a Fiberfab, CMC FiberFab, Daytona Migi, or Duchess kit, they all call for cutting the front beam, rotating it and rewelding it to get the front end lowered. I believe two other options are an adjustable beam which I have on my 74 Ghia and dropped spindles. My question is would dropped spindles work to lower the front end enough? I’ll listen to any and all ideas on this subject.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackHi Allen,
Actually the stock ride VW ride height is correct for most MG kits.
However, if you soften the front suspension by removing torsion bars from the front beam, you need an adjustable front beam to RAISE the ride height back to normal after you soften it.
So my answer to the lowered spindles is… “no”
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Allen, I’m sure that by now you have read at least some of the many posts on the forum about lowering and softening the front suspension on these cars.Much of the info has been presented by those that I respect greatly and who have been there and done that some more than once. Some say add weight and remove leaves others say only to remove leaves and use an adjustable beam. Your Question concerning dropped spindles brings up yet another method.. As I look at my VW based London Roadster,the wheels are too far forward in relation to the fenders. This could have been solved easily if the kit manufacturer had located the body about two inches farther to the front of the VW pan and would also have allowed the grille to be the proper height. Other manufacturers shifted the body forward to allow the correct grille height but this caused the front wheels to sit too far to the rear in relation to the front fenders. This is most noticeable on cars that have been lowered in front.It appears to me that as the VW suspension is lowered ,the wheels move to the rear as the arms get closer to parallel with the ground. Am I correct in assuming that the dropped spindles would change height of the car but not affect the position of the wheels to the front or rear, thereby providing a means to lower the car without moving the wheels ?
Larry I believe that you re correct. I’m not all that familiar with dropped spindles but it seems that it lowers the front end without altering the front to rear distance of the wheel. Do most VW kits not do anything with the front beam? If so, then I’ll leave it as is.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackAllen, In my opinion,and it’s just an opinion, untill you get the kit body on the pan,it will be difficult to determine just how much you need to lower the front end . The general feeling of those on the forum is to remove some torsion bar leaves from both upper and lower beams and to replace the stock beam with an adjustable one.This will be easier to do before you get the body on the pan but can still be done later if you choose to wait and see how it looks and handles first. Be sure to read the many posts about this on the forum before you make your decision.
Get the adjustable beam.
The lowering spindles might be enough to get the ride height correct with the stock, unmodified beam. BUT
The torsion springs inside that beam were built to handle a front end weighing 800-1000 lbs.
Our cars, being fiberglass, and having had the “front seat” moved effectively to the “back seat,” have more like 500-600lbs over those front wheels.
You take the leaf springs out to create a front beam that wants to carry 500-600 lbs, instead of twice that.
THEN you have a decent riding car.
Dropped spindles would (maybe, if you guessed just right) solve the ride height problem, but the front end would still be too stiff, bounce-wise.
My car has the standard cut/weld front beam with all the stock springs in it. Rides like a shopping cart on a cobblestone street. I’ve got about 18lbs pressure in my front tires, which helps with the bumps but makes ’em squeal every time I go around a corner.
The heavy spring rates also make the car plow–understeer–in corners, and make it harder for those front tires to “bite” when I hit the brakes hard. Softer springs aren’t just to comfort your backside; they could be essential to saving your backside in a panic-stop/steer situation.
Re-read Paul’s tutorial on this subject (Pauls, I think…maybe Mark’s). These guys know.
Or ask any of the Speedster guys on the Speedster Owners Group forum. Those guys take handling seriously, and I believe they all have adjustable front beams.
I bought the adjustable beam last spring and CAN’T WAIT to get that sucker installed.
Giving credit where it’s due….
Mark (pinkmg) wrote up the definitive “front end suspensi0on changes” for us.
Search for the “MGTD Kit car suspension”.
It is in the VW Based Kits section
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
I have the cut and weld lowering on my fiberfab MiGi. I’ve made some adjustments to deal with the ride height as it came to me. It looks and rides good now. But…
If I were to start from scratch I would put in adjusters, get the narrowed front beam, remove some leaves and put on dropped spindles (Might as well do disc brakes while you are at it). I believe most people want the car lowered for looks This causes all kinds of problems i.e. shocks bottoming, tires rubbing, Ball joints binding. Tie rods hitting the body etc,etc…
Our problems are no different from vw owners so you can read the long forum on lowered front ends on thesamba.com and judge for your self. My conclusion is that lowering with dropped spindles would be a good idea because it does not take away any travel from the suspension. You won’t get a real soft ride but you won’t be hitting the stops either. You can put the whole thing together and see how much lower you want that front end.
Read the samba forum on rear suspension also.
Chuck
I bought adjusters at the beetle shop cut the top and bottom of the beam and welded them in. I also took some of the other guys advice here on the site and removed 4 of the half leaves, it rides real nice. If you can weld you will be out around 60 bucks as opposed to an adjustable beam which I believe are around 275. of course I had a whole day of my time so that might have been a wash, but certainly part of the adventure.
Will
Swapping to front disc brakes (dropped or stick spindles) also increases the track width by about 2″ overall.
That’s why guys that drop their stock Beetles and install disc brakes usually run a narrowed beam…otherwise you get tire rub.
The front disc brake kits that are out there are mostly Chinese junk. Be very careful of what you buy. Most V-Dubbers buy the pieces separately. They use the OEM Kharman-Ghia disc brake spindles, ATE (European) calipers and the OEM Kharman-Ghia rotors. Then use aftermarket braided stainless steel brake hoses. The bearings, etc. from the drum brakes “bolt-in”.
Using a master cylinder with a larger bore also greatly enchances the disc brakes. However, with a light kit car, the OEM VW 17mm bore master cylinder is fine.
IMHO…as far as ride and ride height…REMOVE TORSION LEAVES and use an adjustable beam (new or modified OEM beam). There is no other way to do it right. Also, DO NOT use a gas charged shock…use an oil filled OEM VW style shock.
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