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Fuel cell question

Home Forums MGTD Kit Cars VW Based Kits Fuel cell question

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  • #233602
    Bill Gould
    Participant

    @texag71

    When I bought my Lafer TI in 2007, the gas tank was beyond repair. So at the same time I had a new 1600cc Type I engine installed, I had a JAZ circle-track fuel cell put in. Fits fine, holds nearly 11 gallons — what’s not to like? Here’s what: My fuel gauge won’t keep an accurate, or even steady, level reading. Before I go to the expense of replacing the gauge (a VDO), I’m wondering if the foam filler in the fuel cell could be interfering with the sending unit. Has anyone else gone the fuel-cell route and dealt with this situation?
    TexAg7140764.9872685185

    1981 Lafer TI
    1600 cc Type 1 engine

    #245744
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Dunno but I know a guy who might. Will Check with him and report

    #245745
    Bill Gould
    Participant

    @texag71

    No big rush. Like many of our fellow replicants, I’ve relied more on my odometer than on the fuel gauge to know when it’s time to top up. To tell the truth, I don’t even know the reason for the foam, and wonder if my best bet (since the Lafer is not running circle track races) would be to drive until the tank is almost dry and just pull the foam entirely.

    And by the way, I just started reading through your blog. Good stuff!

    1981 Lafer TI
    1600 cc Type 1 engine

    #245746
    Paul Mossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    The foam in a fuel cell serves two purposes. It minimizes fuel sloshing around in the tank. In the event the tank and bladder are ruptured, the foam causes the fuel to drip out instead of pour out (like a sponge holding water).

    The foam will interfere with the float and arm on a traditional fuel sender.

    You need an electronic sending unit with no moving parts or a column style with a float that rides up and down on the column.

    And of course you need to match the fuel gauge resistance. Standard VW is 73 ohms empty & 10 ohms full (also used in older Fords and AMC products). Most aftermarket stuff is 240-30 ohms.

    The electronic sensor from these guys looks like the best choice. They say options other than 240-30 ohms are available.

    Here is another electronic sensor.

    Here is a column float sensor.

    VW Bus and Ghias also used a electronic column sender. But I am not sure of the ohm rating. And they may not be the proper length for your application.

    PMOSSBERG40766.4066319444

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #245747
    Bill Gould
    Participant

    @texag71

    As usual, Paul, you seem to be the Answer Man. After looking at those prices, though, and at my available cash, I think the best option would be to just keep watching the odometer. At least for now. Thanks.

    1981 Lafer TI
    1600 cc Type 1 engine

    #245748
    Paul Mossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    LOL!

    I ran for 25 years using the odometer only.

    I had a stock VW sender in my Duchess’ custom tank. The sender only reached about halfway down the tank.

    I would know when the tank was full. As it started to empty the  needle would start to bounce around. And when the tank was still half full, the needle would be on zero.

    In the first couple months on the road, I ran out of gas once. That told me how far I could drive from full to empty. I’d just reset the trip-meter at each fill-up and I was good to go.

    PMOSSBERG40766.4072222222

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #245749
    Peter C. King
    Participant

    @bdriver

    Wouldn’t it have been more useful to bend the stock sending unit float rod down so that the gauge reported the bottom half of the tank instead of the top?  

    That was a great answer on electronic sensors.

    #245750
    Paul Mossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Yes bdriver….if the float would have reached that far. It wouldn’t.

    Classic Roadsters solution was to extend the float rod, using a couple u-bolts. I had nightmare image of those bolts eventually working their way loose, so that is one piece of CR advice that I chose to not follow.

    A couple years ago, I finally replaced the entire sending unit with one that fits the tank depth properly.  

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #245751
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Got word back from Cory Drake, radical builder of a radical Speedster & all ’round good guy.

    He’s got a fuel cell in his ride and a working gauge, to wit:

    “AutoMeter gauge and sending unit, JAZ cell.

    “Put the float on a belt sander for about 15 seconds on the crescent side, to prevent it sticking when it’s saturated with fuel.”


    #245752
    Paul Mossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Ed,

    Did you specifically ask if Cory’s fuel cell is foam filled?
    They are available with & without.

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #245753
    Cory Drake
    Participant

    @paininthebug

    Hi, guys! Ed and Paul (and everybody else), it’s good to see you here! I’ve been looking around your site, and I’m glad to see the positive remarks about my car, Carlisle and the SOC guys. Thanks for that!

    No, I didn’t buy a TD. I’m here to help with the float question.

    I have a JAZ cell, with the foam in it, and I use an AutoMeter fuel gauge with an AutoMeter sleeved sending unit. When I first installed it, the gauge got intermittent readings and was inaccurate for the first few days. After about the third day, the gauge was outright stuck, reading not quite full. It wouldn’t drop, and I had to use an ohm meter to figure out why.

    It was getting most of the current it was supposed to, and there was no way to see what the float was actually doing because it was in the tube. I removed the sending unit and took it apart; the float on the stick is what changes the resistance, and the resistance is what the gauge reads. I left the ohm meter hooked up, and slid the float like a slide trombone to make sure it was functioning correctly. It was.

    The difficulty was that the crescent-shaped float had swollen slightly after being immersed in the tank. The tube wasn’t quite vertical in the cell, which is mounted at a slightly canted angle in my Speedster. Because the float had swollen, it was getting bound up as the top of the float touched the back wall of the tube and the front, lower edge tried to stay upright.

    I put the float on a belt sander for about 15 seconds, rocking it back and forth, removing about as much material as you would if you took the peel off of a lemon slice. On re-assembly, it functioned as advertised.

    Since then, it’s worked brilliantly. Hope this helps.

     

    Cory Drake

    Paininthebug40795.7947569444

    #245754
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Thanks for chiming in, Cory. I forgot to remember if I asked you about that.

    And now that you’re a member of our little tribe, let me formally invite you to the First Annual All English Northern Delaware Drive-a-thon, Scotch Smelling and Yorkshire Pudding Toss.

    You get to come because you have a British accent.

    Follow Schu & Greg up if you can.

    #245755
    Paul Mossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    Cory! Dude!
    Welcome!

    TD guys…Cory is the renowned owner and builder of the baddest ass Speedster you will ever lay eyes on (if he slows down enough for you to see it)

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #245756
    Cory Drake
    Participant

    @paininthebug

    I’m going to try to make the English-food cruise.

    Sounds like a good time.

    <img src="http://i873.photobucket/albums/ab294/hooptypilot/Cars/Hoop

    ty%20shots/e17de55f.jpg”>

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