fuel hose between tank and tunnel

[Bob]

Feeling dumb after I found the hose going to the tunnel after being told about that on these VW kits.

I’m having trouble with the tank outlet hose leaking even after I cut the end off when adding a shut-off valve and filter (and new 5mm braided hoses).

Apparently that old hose, going under the floor of the trunk or false hood, is cracking enough to still leak.

Picture shows the old hose line, green and red arrow pointing to it and where it goes into a hole.

Since I have an inspection camera I tried to see what it connects to on the other end, couldn’t get the right angle. Thinking it must be on an adapter on the end of the larger (7mm?) braided hose showing under the front of the car. However, a grommet there is too tight to get a look inside.

I can pull the smaller hose up a few inches and the larger hose out half foot but they don’t seem connected, although I reckon they must be. Anyone know if the adapter might be mounted on something in there?

Thought it would be simple to just attach new hose to old and pull through, seems more to it than that.

Thanks for any help so I don’t need X-Rays or tear things apart to get into it.

[newkitman]

With or without the filter and shut-off, the fitting on the bottom of the tank is basically an “L” shaped tube. The tall/long part of the tube is in the tank and the short “L” gets the fuel hose. You will probably have to remove the tank to get to  the bottom of the tank to access the fuel fitting. I’d replace the fitting assembly and the hoses. They sell the fuel tank fitting at any parts store.

Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

[Royal]

All too many VWs have been burned up. Please change and replace all hoses with NEW ones. Also, I’m not too comfortable with what looks like a Briggs & Stratton shutoff valve. Please forgive, – I’m a bit paranoid about engine fires. One was enough!

[billnparts]

If you’re replacing hose use the new “barricade” hose. It’s built to withstand the effects of the ethanol that’s now in the fuel.

Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"

[Bob]

I should have told about the tank fitting being replaced already, too. Sorry.

Only using 100% gasoline, available around here, that’s why I went ahead and bought the original 5mm braided hose from a foreign car parts shop. I will check about the barricade kind when I can replace it all again.

The engine compartment hoses seem okay, but were put on 4 1/2 years ago, which I thought was same for all. Maybe not.

What I’ve got to figure out is if I can pull that old 5mm hose out through the underside where 7mm(?) is on the metal pipe going into the tunnel.

If the installer/builder mounted it to the inner wall where I can’t get to it I’m going to need to take things apart. Otherwise it would be very easy to just pull that larger hose out where the grommet hole is at.

I’m hoping someone here at tdreplica has this same setup and has done the replacement that way, or has some insight into getting in there.

Maybe just putting a new hole would be simplest way? Not sure if other people go with that idea instead of trying to stay with original routing.

[Bob]

Update: my perception of fuel hose sizes is at fault here. I was convinced the old hose going to the tank was a 5mm, and even after I added the new sections with the filter and shut-off (will check into getting a more robust valve) I couldn’t see a difference in their diameters.

And yet, when looking at that hose under the front of the car I was again sure it had to be larger than the end at the tank.

I finally wrangled the tank out of there, easier than I expected, and got a better look at that hose end. It’s larger than the new 5mm! So one end of the filter has 5mm and the other has the old 7mm(?). Not entirely obvious being such a short part showing but now I know that is all one hose from there to the metal pipe under the car.

I couldn’t believe it. All it took was another look with the inspection camera, tank removed, to convince me of that. Now, of course, if I had someone else there to tug on the other end of the hose when I pulled it under the car I would have at least known it was free to move. I just thought maybe it was coupled together, and more importantly with a size adapter, possibly mounted solidly onto someplace inside where I couldn’t see or reach.

Well, that’s solved now. Just a larger braided hose (must be 7mm) all the way from pipe to tank. So I will buy an extra long 4′ section and attach it to the old hose and pull it through that grommet hole. Whew! Will be a simple fix.

Interesting find when I pulled the gas tank up and out, which I lifted from windshield end then pulled away from narrow end. When attempting same thing before I thought the bottom was too large to clear. Wrong. Just enough clearance and was far easier than I ever thought.

Anyway… the treasure hunt it turned into as I got the tank out. Picture:

Circa 1980’s, or earlier, Vise Grip pliers! This is exactly where I found it. Battery was moved after I spilled gas, hopefully didn’t ruin it with any getting into vent caps. Volts still showed 12.8 hour later.

Thinking danger!? I should have and removed battery first. A spark and whoosh, up in flames. I’m luckier than just finding pliers.

🙂

Thanks for reading if you got this far! 

Tank itself seems okay, just having trouble with sealing the outlet so more gasket sealant (VersaChem #2) being tried.

LRH2015-04-15 20:29:56

[Royal]

From Jim Reeves and the rest of us in TDr land:

“Welcome to my World”

[edward ericson]

Glad that worked out. Plus: Free tool!

[Bob]

Thanks guys! Yeah, I needed a freebie after going through all that. Although another Vise Grips makes me feel like I owe the car something now! I guess that would be a complete fixing up, not finished yet anyhow.

Because of the type of car it is, and new to me, been difficult to do anything to this car. I hated to tear up the carpet-lined trunk (fake engine compartment) just to pull out the gas tank. I still feel like it’s another persons car, or like any new untouched car. Slowly getting more into it.

Royal, got the Jim Reeves reference now. Reminds me of my grandparents house when I was a little kid, Lawrence Welk on TV. Always a little vacation away from the other music of that time, up until they let us play Herman’s Hermits on their record player.

[Paul Mossberg]

Good work Bob!

Given that you’ve now completed an excavation of the front “trunk” area, I ‘m pretty sure it’s no longer “another persons’ car.” She’s all yours!

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Dale Schumacher]

Roy,

I would not worry about that shut-off valve – have one just like that on mine going on 7 years without a problem and I shut it on and off if I leave my TDr for more then 30 minutes in any location so it gets used a lot. Designed for gas as you know. Mines been bulletproof so far…

[Royal]

Yeah, as you say, “they are designed for gas”, so that and your 7 year test should prove that they are good or at least OK.
I will have to admit to some paranoia about car fires. I once pulled a diesel out of a VW Dasher and put in a gas engine only to have a really big fire 300 miles later. Total loss of car and lots of my great grandfather’s important papers inside. …..and I have no idea what the cause was but I suspect that I didn’t sufficiently tighten a hose clamp.

[Bob]

Back again to say I was getting confused about the fuel line ID size.

My fuel pump has a smaller and larger diameter on the intake and outlet sides, with the larger going from pump to carburetor. I understand the PSI is low going in and increased going out.

However, now I’m thinking these larger diameter hoses might be the 5mm that have ballooned up somehow, since that seems to be what the VW parts places sell as the original replacement size for everything. Just a smaller 3.5mm for vacuum lines. Not sure where I got the idea of 7mm from… well yeas I do, from the apparent oversized hoses I saw and I think the parts place in town sells a 7mm cloth braided hose.

Good to hear about the shut-off. I got it from O’Reilly’s Auto Parts and they usually are pretty good about parts but I did think it was going to be metal. Looks like Tractor Supply has a metal 90 degree elbow for more $$.

Sorry about the car fire. Never had one myself but have come across a few. 1st was as a kid in the barber shop and a car pulled up front and fire started under the hood.

I had a fire extinguisher from a car I traded in for new one last year so that went between the seats of this car just after I got it home.

LRH2015-04-16 22:59:44

[Derek]

I think on my TDr everything is 5mm hose since it is carbureted, I used the equivalent fractional size though. 

I believe 7mm was used on fuel injected VWs, at least for type 3s. 

Is your fuel pump mechanical or electric? The mechanical ones should be same size inlet and outlet. 

And I felt the same way as you when I first got mine, I was hesitant to do anything. But now I will do almost anything to make it how I like it and I know just about every inch of the car from doing one thing or another. (I’m also a bit less hesitant because I haven’t gotten it repainted yet so I know that if I mess up anything I can fix it before paint!)

[Bob]

Just now seen your question, missed until now.

It’s a mechanical pump, looks like a couple very short cans of different diameter one atop the other, old brass color.

Posting back here with a picture of new and old hose to show what I mean about the obvious difference in diameters. I guess it’s very possible a larger ID was used, for whatever reason. And yet the interior had degraded badly too, so I still have to wonder if it did balloon up from 5mm.

Only way to know is if somebody out there, knowing what size they started with, has seen that happen to their own fuel lines.

Another picture shows my mess of a fix for leaky tank outlet, the thing just wouldn’t tighten and seal and I was afraid to add so much torque as to break it. Also discovered leaks at the corners that appear to be cut for fitting the narrower side toward front of car.

My found pliers picture shows a beige color of the under-tank tray on the side with the worst leaking corner, so now I know that must be why it wasn’t black like the rest of it.

New 5mm on left, mystery old hose middle, new 1/4 inch.

And that old larger hose showing inside ends, top uncut (from metal tube end under car) and bottom freshly cut but tried (unsuccessfully) on gas tank outlet pipe.

Gas tank outlet with Permatex ethanol resistant putty applied around outlet. Crinkled paint due to brake cleaner used for cleaning before applying putty, it ran down (up here) from where I sprayed. Only a temporary fix, I don’t think it will hold permanently. With some rust inside tank and 2 corners also puttied because of seepage I’m going to need a new tank. Not really wanting to try tank sealer internally.

[Author]

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