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  • #235960
    vince-valiant
    Participant

    @vince-valiant

    I’ve been looking for the right MG TD replica all year long and finally found it. It has a new transmission, rebuilt VW engine with a new starter and carburetor; All new brake lines, brakes and tires and a new upholstered seat. It runs like a top! I bought it, got it registered and titled, but after 10 days I haven’t found a company to insure it.

    The snag seems to be it being parked in a carport in a gated community.

    Anyone know any insurance companies that specialize in kit cars? Just want basic insurance to drive it in California.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated…

    #266534
    greg-press
    Participant

    @greg-press

    Try Hagerty ins. Had them for yrs . Very easy to deal with . A kit car not an issue . I also have there towing package . Once I broke down called them they had it brought to my house and the next day towed to a garage .

    #266535
    scubasteve
    Participant

    @scubasteve

    I have Hagerty also. I called others, some weren’t even interested and others would only cover my London Roadster as a VW.
    The Hagerty agent was very helpful. They ask for a lot of information in order to make sure you get correct coverage.
    My coverage is about $50 less than I was quoted for the same package from the big car insurance company.
    You can go to: https://www.hagerty.com, click on “Does My Vehicle Qualify”, then “Modified Vehicles”.
    It explains everything there.
    You can even find a local agent near you.
    Good Luck!

    Amor Conquista Todo

    #266536
    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Grundy/Philadelphia Insurance covers B @ $10,000 agreed value for $170 per year. Req locked garage storage tho.

    #266537
    johnsimion
    Participant

    @johnsimion

    “American Collectors Insurance” (ACI) is a partner with USAA.  They were more than happy to insure my TDR for $30K (!) at a price less than USAA is currently charging me for ??? value while my car is still being finished in my garage.  Since the car is still not on the road, I haven’t signed on with anybody, but I do plan to get quotes from Hagerty and Grundy.  They sound like better deals, because even with the 5% discount I get for being a USAA member, ACI still seems to be more expensive than what you guys are reporting for Hagerty and Grundy.  But it can’t hurt to call ACI.  They will certainly be willing to give you a quote on your TDR!

    #266538
    vince-valiant
    Participant

    @vince-valiant

    Thanks, but Hagerty rejected me.

    So did Grundy, AAA, Geico, Farmers, State Farm, General, Mercury, Esurance and Hartford, who I have for my other car.

    All this is so frustrating.

    #266539
    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    I will inquire on the Speedster board. Lots of CA guys there.

    #266540
    sabreur76
    Keymaster

    @sabreur76

    I’m going to repeat what John said, I got ACI through USAA and it has been a really good deal.

    Vicenç - (bee sense)
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse"

    #266541
    medicine-man
    Participant

    @medicine-man

    I called Hagerty. They asked for photos of both sides, front, back, engine, interior, and trunk. I sent photos as requested and they set an “Agreed Value” of $27,964.00 for $292.00. This is for full coverage with a $0 deductible. It was easy, painless, and surprising that they valued my London Roadster for a good bit more than I have invested in it. I am very satisfied with how easy they were to deal with.

    #266542
    rosebud-and-bill
    Participant

    @rosebud-and-bill

    I also used Hagerty Insurance, very easy to work with if you send them what they request in the way of photos and info.  I asked for $25,000,00 with no deductible and towing and that was no problem for them.  They charged me $426.00, but I think a lot of that is California.  35% of the drivers out here are driving bare.

    Bill 

    Bad Bill

    #266543
    johnsimion
    Participant

    @johnsimion

    After relooking my letter from USAA, telling me to try American Collectors Insurance, I see that one of the requirements is that the car be kept in a locked garage (“or similar enclosure”).  That seems to be a common thread here with other posters, and that may be what’s keeping Vince Valiant from getting insurance … a carport must not meet the requirements of the insurance.  Doggone if I understand why it should make a difference for anything but comprehensive, though.

    #266544
    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

    Hagerty rejected me also.

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #266545
    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Ideas from members of SOC–the Speedster Owners Group:

     “I had no problems with Geico. No driving restrictions either.”

    We use AAA in northern California (separate company for the southern half of the state). The website is:

    https://calstate.aaa.com/insurance

    We’ve had all of our cars (and our homeowners policy) with them for over 30 years, although we’ve only ever filed minor claims (windshields, vandalism, etc.). We added the Speedster as just another car, with no driving or mileage restrictions. We do keep it in a locked garage, but I don’t recall that being a requirement.

    They don’t do ‘agreed value’ policies, but insist that our VS would be evaluated at market value for similar cars in the event of a claim – meaning a 2013 similarly-equipped VS, not a 1969 VW. It’s listed on the policy as a kit car, not a VW.

    We would very likely get more for the car in a claim if we had an agreed value policy with a specialty car insurance company, but we’re more concerned with how the company would handle a major liability claim than anything else. We also have a liability umbrella policy with them.

    If your friend wants a few dozen hours of really stimulating reading, he can do a search here for ‘insurance’ to see all of the angles discussed at length.”

    This one, from Paul (who actually works in the insurance industry, i believe): “Not for nothing Mitch, and I do hope you never have to test this, but the company “insisting” the value will be evaluated at market value for similar cars in the event of a claim means nothing.

    I’m sure your policy/contract states that the insurer will pay “the lessor of the actual cash value and the amount necessary to repair or replace….”

    Those magic words, “actual cash value,” actually mean the depreciated value. God forbid you suffer a theft or total loss; but if you do you will be fighting with them over what that car was worth the day of the theft or accident. I’m not saying you won’t eventually win. Btu it will be a fight.

    That is the big difference between normal auto insurance and a collector car policy. On a collector car policy, you and the insurer agree to a specific value for the car, and in the event of a total loss, THAT is the amount they will pay. No arguing.”

    Mitch replied: “Good points, Paul. I tried to explain the difference between the two types of policies in my comment.

    But everything is a compromise. I think I could handle a $5-10K hit in compensated value, or even the whole cost of the car in the worst case.

    What I couldn’t handle is a multi-million dollar personal injury lawsuit, and that’s my main concern in choosing an insurance company. We have many years of experience with AAA, and generally like their straightforward attitude, their customer service, and how we have been treated by them. When the anti-freeze hits the fan, that is often what counts the most. Of course, anything can happen with any company and in the end, you pays your premium and you takes your chances.

    But Ed was asking about California companies that don’t require a car to be garaged, and I think that wasn’t a requirement with AAA. They did ask about it, and the premium may have been higher if the car is unprotected, but I don’t recall.”
    Paul: “Typically the garage requirement only comes with the limited use, collector car policy.

    My guess is that it’s not so much how protected the car is from theft when it’s home, but more an indication of how well the owner cares for the car. If you don’t have a place to lock ‘er up overnight, the insurer infers you may not be taking great care in general.”

    –and my fave, via private message:
    If nothing else works our, your buddy may have a friend/neighbor/relative who would be willing to sign a lease agreement renting him garage space near his condo.  If I remember correctly, the insurance policy asks if you park the car in an enclosed garage, but not the address or location.  The agreement would not be acknowledged unless something went sideways, like a fire at buddy’s complex.  Not really much chance of a claim while parked, eh?


    #266546
    johnsimion
    Participant

    @johnsimion

    The last part is problematic. Dunno about other insurance companies, but USAA always asks where the car is kept. That is the first question. I live in Vegas, and I guess it would be technically truthful to say only that the car is “in Vegas” if it was garaged elsewhere in Vegas and they didn’t ask WHERE in Vegas. However, what you would be doing is misleading them into thinking the car is at your home. Lying to or misleading the insurance company is a really good way to see your coverage disappear just when you need it most, and I’m not sure I would even blame them. At best it would make you into a slimy lawyer type person that most people don’t want to be (I am a retired lawyer, so I try extra hard to avoid the slimy part). It’s not worth it to save a few bucks. I can make more money but my integrity is something I can’t afford to lose.

    #266547
    sabreur76
    Keymaster

    @sabreur76

    John, USAA gets a little more in depth than where is it kept.  They actually ask for an address during their annual updates.  At any rate, the issue is moot because USAA is not the insurer ACI is and they do ask for an address.  So even if we tried the slimy lawyer (and I am also a lawyer so no offence meant or taken) approach I don’t think it would work.  😉  However, 10 years ago I had a 1940 LaSalle insured through USAA/ACI and I did not have a garage in my house but they accepted an enclosed, locked bay at a storage facility and for a year, after I sold my house and moved temporarily to the West Coast, they accepted my son’s garage.  That’s analogous to “a friend/neighbor/relative who would be willing to sign a lease agreement renting him garage space.”  I don’t think it matters that the vehicle is not stored at your home address, I think the issue is whether or not it is kept in a secure location.  That’s my two cents, mileage may vary, nothing in the above should be taken as creating an attorney/client relationship and all  the above statements are provided for informational purposes only and do not constitute legal advice.

    Vicenç - (bee sense)
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse"

    #266548
    pmossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    You can garage the car elsewhere, but you absolutely need to provide the actual garaging address to the insurer.

    To not disclose that information is fraud. And if that garage did burn down with your car in it, your insurer is well within their rights, and within the terms of the contract, to deny the claim.
    I’m not a lawyer, but in a prior career with my current employer I was a contract/legislative/regulatory analyst…and won lots of debates with our corporate attorneys, as well as a fair number of state insurance department attorneys. I eventually managed my company’s entire personal auto insurance program. I’m not bragging, but I do know what I’m writing about.

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #266549
    pmossberg
    Keymaster

    @pmossberg

    This is probably the third or fourth thread, in which I have posted my Insurance 101 article.

    I wrote this in response to another thread. But I liked my own writing so much I am adding it to this thread.

    INSURANCE 101

    To really understand what you are buying, you need to understand the difference between the value used to determine the price of your insurance and the actual coverage set forth in the policy.

    Regardless of the terms used by the insurer,you MUST read the actual policy itself to determine how the company will settle a loss if your car is damaged.

    Either term, “Stated Value” or “Agreed Value” may be used, and MIS-USED, to mean similar or very different things.

    Let’s look at the price side first.

    For a mass production vehicles, insurers know what the cost basis of the car is, and it is easy for them to rate it.

    For our cars, there is no generally available reference. So the client and the insurer must “agree” to a value.

    The term “Stated Value” usually (but not always) refers to the value to be used to determine the price of your insurance. But I have also seen insurers use the “Agreed Value” term to mean the same thing.

    The bottom line is this point is meaningless in the pricing context. If you are happy with the premium,great! It does not matter what the insurer calls it.

    BUT, let’s now look at what you bought. The Coverage in the Policy.

    You may see the same terms used again in the policy. And you know what? It still does not matter!

    You have to read the contract. ALL of it! Read the coverage language. And more importantly, read the Loss Settlement language.

    In your normal policy, if a vehicle is damaged and it is an insured loss, the settlement is always, ALWAYS on an “actual cash value” basis. This is referred to as “ACV”. This means the insurer will pay the LESSER of:

    • cost to repair the vehicle or
    • the ACTUAL CASH VALUE of the vehicle at the time of the loss.

    ACV means the DEPRECIATED value! The three year old car that you paid $30,000 for when it was new is no longer worth $30,000 and the insurer won’t pay you that amount!

    You guys that have your kit car insured on your regular auto insurance, State Farm, Geico, whomever, I can almost guarantee you your policy is written as an ACV policy. If your TD replica is damaged or totaled, the insurer will rely on the above language to pay a depreciated amount, and it will be LESS than the “Stated Amount” or the “Agreed Value” used to price your policy.

    Antiques, classic cars, collector cars normally do NOT depreciate. In fact they may increase in value. Specialty insurers know this. And they write insurance for you with COVERAGE that is based on an Agreed Value.

    The Loss Settlement provisions will read something like this:

    In the event of a loss, we (the insurer) will pay you the lesser of:

    • The cost to repair the vehicle, or
    • The Agreed Value stated in the policy declarations

    You will NOT see the term “actual cash value” or “ACV” referenced in the policy.  That is, the insurer will NOT depreciate  the value of your  TD. If they agreed to insure it for $10,000, and  the car is totalled, they will pay you $10,000.

    I hope this is clear. But please ask questions and I will try to explain further.

    PMOSSBERG2015-12-17 10:22:54

    Paul Mossberg
    Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
    2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

    If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

    #266550
    sabreur76
    Keymaster

    @sabreur76

    PMOSSBERG wrote:
    You can garage the car elsewhere, but you absolutely need to provide the actual garaging address to the insurer.

    Paul, that’s exactly my point.  I don’t know anything about insurance (other than what it says on the contract) and I am only speaking from personal experience but when I insured the LaSalle I kept it at a storage facility, a few blocks from my house, for several years and in my son’s garage, all the way across the country, for a year.  All that time I kept the insurance company informed of the actual address where the car was garaged and they didn’t care that it wasn’t my home address or even that I was in Seattle and the car was in Wilmington, NC, so long as the car was secure, i.e. not parked out in the open.  
    I don’t want to open another can of worms but I remember that the person I originally spoke to about insuring the car said that keeping it in an open carport (which is what I had in the house I owned at the time) was not an option.  That’s what let me to explore the storage facility route.  I know a couple of people in the car club I belong to here that have their antique cars in carports.  I don’t know if what I was told then about carports was incorrect or a difference based on the insurance companies or what.

    Vicenç - (bee sense)
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse"

    #306381
    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

    My sister, an independent insurance agent, informed me Hagerty has a new policy concerning replicas. For just over $200/yr. I now have collision and comp. I’m restricted to not using it more than 20 times a year for work. That won’t be a problem. So, better coverage and less money. If interested, her agency is JLDAVIS Insurance.

    http://www.jldavisins.com

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #306384
    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Bill do they know you race the car? Is there a rider for that? Or an exclusion rider?

    $200 is less than I pay now for Bridget, I think.

    #306385
    billnparts
    Participant

    @billnparts

    No to the racing.

    I know that that is all on me.

    The insurance covers street use only.

    They do have something called “Cherished Salvage”

    I can have it back if it’s a total.

    Bill Ascheman
    Fiberfab Ford
    Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
    Autocross & Hillclimb
    "Drive Happy"

    #306388
    edsnova
    Participant

    @edsnova

    “Cherished Salvage.” Another great band name. Another great sales pitch!

    “This cherished salvage was lovingly crashed into the Turn 6 guardrail during the 2018 Duryea Hillclimb competition. It’s equipped with blown-out Nitto Extreme tires in 245/50/17 (front) and gently-flogged 305/40/17s on the rear. Note the authentic “OH SHIT” rust streak along the passenger flank where the guardrail caressed both doors, implementing the ultra-rare mirror-delete option. Custom re-shaped upper and lower control arms along with a patent-pending “Pretzel-Logic” antisway bar grace the artfully-demolished undercarriage, while the A-framed hood imparts downforce via a unique experimental ground effects system and a one-off “fender induction” scoop directs cold air under the hood . . . ”

     

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