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This is for my “new addition to the family” one, originally posted in the Chevy/Ford section.
Since I had the car at Just Brakes (can you say RIP OFF!), I was informed that I have a Chevy Chevette front end and a Nissan 260/270/280 rear end. The body is a Fiberfab.
The car is powered by a Chevy V8 283 and has more than enough power and hot rod sound. The brakes before the Just Brake total replacement and afterward don’t feel good or stop the vehicle quickly. I noted no change in stopping power after new rotors, new pads, new drums, cylinders and springs, including new brake lines and front shocks. The master cylinder could not be changed out, so I have the one that came with the car. Apparently, there is no booster and the system is manual. Did I forget any part of the brake system brake system?
I would like a more powerful braking system, in case I needed to stop in an emergency and for everyday driving.
What do I need to stop this monster quickly? Am I spoiled with the braking system in my Honda S2000?
why, again, can’t you get the master cylinder out?
I ask because maybe it’s too small for the brakes. You might get better brakes if you put a proportion valve in it to hold back some juice from the rears, which–coming from a 240-26-280 z car–are probably bigger (and require more fluid) than the Chevette brakes they replaced.
Check with the chevette forum first (if you have not already done so), and if there’s no love there, start thinking about re-engineering them. If I were you I’d be looking for hotrod braking systems from Wilwood. Or maybe getting someone who does nothing but custom stuff to have a look, at least.
All that said, I maintain my original opinion–ignorant though it may be–that you’ve got a 2300-lb car and so even modest (Chevette) stoppers ought to work fine until and unless you start getting some laps in on the local road course. Something is still not fixed. But it’s certainly fixable.
The system in it should be able to be made to work.
See if there is a casting number on the master cylinder so we can identify what you have. Is it a Chevy master cylinder? Is it a chevy master with the vacumn booster removed? Not a good thing as it probably has the wrong bore size to work as a non-powered system.
Thanks guys. Having not built this car myself, I’m learning a lot so far with brake systems. I recall some brake stars I had to tighten in my ’67 bug, then back off a bit.
With the shortened daylight hours, it is dark when I leave for work, and when I come home during the week. I don’t know if I can read the casting number tonight, but I’ll give it a try. Otherwise, I need to wait for the weekend.
In the meantime, I just set an appointment with a custom auto shop across town for the Saturday after Thanksgiving. He is not normally open on Saturdays, but with my work schedule of one hour commutes and 10 hour days 5 days a week, I’m grateful that he will accomodate my work week.
http://americanchevette.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/416 3321-11-brake-upgrade
I read this the other day ,you might want to take a look at it.
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First off I would like to see some pics of this chevy powered beast.
Now I would like to know where is the master mounted,up on the firewall or down under the floor,this makes a BIG differance as fluid will flow back to the master if its below the calipers or wheel cylinders,it would need an anti flowback valve.
any non power gm master should give pleny of fluid movment to work the brakes,and yes a power master is different,these were designed for women so the pedal was softer and easier to push.
Also did they replace any of the soft (rubber)brake hoses,sounds like they might be colapsed and not letting fluid through.
If only I would fly I would come out and get your brakes in order and I don’t have the time for a bus ride.
I have a gm master and power booster feeding chrysler brakes and propotioning valve on my 55 and them brakes will put you through the windshield at the slightest touch.
I leave for work before dawn and get home after the sun sets. No time for shots during the week and little time on the weekends, lately. I’ll get shots of her posted in a few weeks, if you can all wait. I’m sure the eBay photos are long gone by now.
The master cylinder sits up high in the engine bay, and is visible from the outside due to a cut out in the engine side covers.
Just Brakes tried to sell me a new one, but they couldn’t get it to fit and simply replaced the one I drove in with. How fast does brake fluid turn black once the master cylinder is opened? They told me it was a sign of a leaking system, and I’m a nube when it comes to brakes. Did I fall for a sales pitch?
Brake fluid should take a couple years to turn black and even then it should still do its job.If you had a leak you would be constantly adding.Sound like your system has been contaminaited with something.
I was with the Just Brakes techician, a Certified Brake Specialist, and saw him lift the cover of the master cylinder to show me the black fluid. He told me that exposure to air would cause it to turn black and that I most likely had a leak somewhere. I haven’t had the car long enough to notice any brake fluid leaking. The weak brakes were obvious to me as soon as I tried my first stop at the corner stop sign as soon as I got home and got her running.
I did have all brake lines replaced and went with stainless steel for the one that was showing signs of wear under the floor pan.
I can’t think of anything on the brakes system, except the master cylinder, that wasn’t replaced for this latest brake job. I would have gone with the plan to replace the master cylinder, too, but the one they had for me would not fit in the space available.
Black brake fluid??? I’ve played with cars since I was 14 and had some real junkers, and I mean bone yard ready or beyond, and I’ve never had brake fluid turn black.
Why would the brake fluid be black if you just replaced the brake lines. Did they replace the brake lines without replacing the brake fluid, now that would be a trick I haven’t seen
The black brake fluid was shown to me before they started any work. Yes, I got all new brake fluid, too.
the hot rod shop I took it too this past Saturday wants about $1,200. or a little more to put in larger rotors and 11 inch calipers, which he said would make a lot of difference.
If I am to add a power booster, the master cylinder would have to be relocated. I’m probably looking at a different brake pedal lever, too. This will be another $2,000.
With the Honda S2000 in the body shop, due out in two weeks, and the VW motor block and parts being held hostage for payment at the machine shop, I just don’t think I can spring for the monster’s brake upgrade right now. I’ll just have to drive it gingerly, which is not what I think this V8 engine was designed to do.
On your post of 9 Nov, you said that “the one that they had for me would not fit in the space available”. Doesn’t sound like they had the right master cylinder. Sounds like you have replaced everything else in the braking system. Yes??? I would either get a new replacement or rebuilt master cylinder or rebuild the one that is in the car. If you take the old one out and can not find any numbers, take it to an auto supply store that has someone who has been around autos for a while, flop it on the counter and he will find you an exact replacement. Then bleed the master cylinder, install it and bleed the system This may not make your brakes good enough for you to be happy, but no matter what, you have probably not lost much money and taking the old master out was on your list regardless. They are relatively cheap.
OK, I can see where my communication may cause some confusion. when the car was at Just Brakes, I was told that they could not replace my master cylinder. They are also prohibited by their coporate overseers from modifying the system, which is what they would consider, if they relocated the master cylinder to make room for the booster (which I assume has to sit on top of the master cylinder?).
The hot rod shop that recommends larger calipers said he could relocate the master cylinder from the side to on top of the valve cover (or over it) and install a booster. He builds and modifies custom cars, so he is not under the constraints of a Just Brakes coroporate policy. It looks like I have Chevette brakes, as least on the front wheels, and these don’t seem to be adequately paired with the engine and transmission of this vehicle.
As they are now, I drove the car across town 30 miles one way on the freeway, with surface streets traveled at both ends of that journey, and suface streets back home. I had ample time on each part of that journey to lift my foot off the accelerator, feel the engine slow down, and then apply the brakes. I did not have to stop in an emergency, and the vehicle came to complete stops, sometimes requiring significant leg pushing power to keep it from inching forward.
I hope to get speedy brakes to go with my powerful engine.
The brake booster is generally a large round can that sits between the firewall and the master cylinder. There is a hose going to the engine since it uses engine vacuum to multiply the pedal force and assist in stopping. You might likely get the same stopping power if you could push hard enough on your brakes without a booster. It sounds like you are facing an interference problem caused by the booster (which you don’t yet have). Installing larger calipers (and pads) may be relatively inexpensive and easy and may do the job. I think that is what I would do first without the booster. (Or replace the master cylinder which may be the real source of your problems.) It is really hard to help someone out here because it is quite subjective: how bad is bad? How good is good?? Are these brakes good enough?? They have only to make you happy, someone else may not mind pushing harder. We all could spend a small fortune and make our brakes better (and of course – safer). No matter what, I’d stay away from “Just Brakes”.
I plan to support local shops and not go back to a chain like Just Brakes. Looking back, my attitude was “they must know brakes”. But afterwards, “they don’t or can’t do custom work” and now I know my car doesn’t belong in their shop.
I am a little thrown by the quote of $1,200 for larger calipers. It wasn’t that much more for a total rebuild (about $1,600)
The big brake option is a nice upgrade, but has anyone checked the master cylinder push rod.? Is the push rod installed so that you would have full travel? Is there a pedal stop on the brake pedal that restricts full movement? Most master cylinders use the same 2-bolt mounting pattern and are easily interchanged, the big difference is with the piston inside. The depth of the hole on the cylinder where the push rod attaches varies quite a bit.
Just throwing this stuff out there…you’ve spent enough on brakes already.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"chevy chevette brake update. these guys installed larger rotors and brakes calipers on there chevette racers.
http://www.missedshift.com/2012/05/chevette-front-brake-upgrade/
these one seams a little involved for some of use. Opions are welcome.
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Wow that seems like a lot of work , time ‘n’ cash and I don’t know if is that much better than a stock power system? I have the old service brake system and have no stopping problems, you may want to check the system for a failure somewhere
I replaced the master last year simple quick,, can it be glazed drums or roters ?good luck Dan
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