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Copying Raby is pretty smart (and pretty hard), I think. 70+ at the rear wheels is really good power for a Type 1, most of double what mine made.
Funny thing, until you started posting engine specs I had not considered trying a big single Weber/Del on Bridget.The Progressive is turned sideways and so would not fit behind the lid, but the IDF might not be any broader than a Pict 3. Possibly solves several problems . . .(Of course in my case, my case is probably overdue for some love or replacement. But still…)Ah well. Back to the garage.Ed, I don’t know how well the single carb ( in Jake’s “recipe” with the dyno results at the link above) would fit underneath a TDr’s spare tire/fake spare engine lid, but they used to make intakes for single-carb Weber side-draft DCNFs/DCOEs for Baja bugs and such. (There were conversion kits for Squarebacks/Type IIIs too.) These would lie on their side, being shorter, but protrude more toward the rear.
Either one MIGHT be a candidate prescription for those who don’t have enough engine space to run dual Webers/HPMXs in a TDr…Gene Berg and Dean Lowry (Deano’s DynoSaur drag car) used to run sidedraft webers on upright engines, back in the day.85 HP is about a 50% increase over the stock VW engines, and should run cool while still giving over 30MPG, properly tuned…EDIT: Part of my reasoning for posting all this info is that there is a viable alternative to 1776s, 1835s, 2110s — especially mild ones — that is affordable and reliable. Lots of people fall into the “there’s no replacement for displacement” — which is true, to a point) mindset, but end up building big, slow-revving, lower compression, lower RPM motors that are more suitable for VW busses than for sports cars. A smaller displacement engine that runs happily and reliably in the 4,000+ RPM range all day long is MUCH more suitable for a light-weight sports car than a larger, torque monster that won’t breath (or last) much past 3500 RPM…If you buy “off-the-shelf” longblocks, they’ll often try to steer you toward these “torque monsters” because a low-compression, large motor will perform and last (with fewer customer complaints/problems) at an affordable pricepoint, or they’ll try to sell all-out, high RPM and high $$ HP monsters suitable for the drag strip. VW Beetles are so UN-aerodynamic that they’re not commonly used for road racing, so they’ve been used primarily as Baja bugs (needing torque monster engines) or straight-line drag racing…EDIT #2: Here’s a Samba link that shows one of these unusual sidedraft intakes on a fiberglass dunebuggy. Note that there are NO provisions on his intake for heat runners, so tuning it for the street might be a challenge: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=512260&highlight=sidedraft+manifoldKentT2014-01-06 10:53:24
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...sreynolds wrote:Kent, what three companies offer the thick wall 88’s? Thanks.Sam
Sam,Here’s a Samba advertiser who sells them for $150:Air-cooled .Net has them for $170:I can’t remember who else I saw — likely CB Performance — also sells them…Of course, if you want best quality available, Gene Berg’s sells them with likely forged (though unspecified) pistons for $400 plus:Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...BTW, I wanted to add a bit of caution/explanation about heads and valves.
“Conventional wisdom” is that the maximum/optimum exhaust valve size when running factory heater boxes is about 32mm. (Stock dual ports are 30mm. ) But, 32mm exhaust valves in “off-the-shelf” heads is a bit unusual. My choice of heads above, with 35.5mm exhaust valves is “pushing the envelope” and will likely add a bit of “bog or non-responsiveness” at low RPMs (below 2000 RPM) and possibly additional heat at high speeds (4000 RPM plus). I’m consciously doing this for a few reasons:1. The lighter weight of the TDr will help offset this lack of torque/respone at low RPM…2. This gives me “off-the-shelf” airflow at high RPMs without the trouble/expense of porting a head with smaller exhaust valves to make it flow more at high RPM…3. I’m doing this ONLY because I’m going to the dual Weber clones which provide almost infinite tunability — I certainly wouldn’t recommend these heads (nor the Engle 110 cam) for a stock-carb engine.4. As I’ve noted, I’m simultaneously addressing cooling issues, as best I can… including keeping compression ratio low.5. Should I encounter serious low RPM bogging or high RPM heat, the simple, inexpensive fix is to replace the heater boxes (foregoing cabin heat) with J-tubes — or bite-the-bullet and invest in larger, aftermarket heater boxes to retain cabin heat.I know the risks and potential fixes, going in…The key to waking up VW engines is more about heads/valves and carbs (i.e. airflow), than it is displacement. The factory setup is severely limited by its ability to breath. This was done for both cost and reliability reasons. The same engines in the Type III fastbacks/squarebacks running dual carbs and later fuel injection reliably put out several HP more — though they were still “mild” compared to their potential. Dual carbs is THE first upgrade to do to a VW for performance — if you have the room to do so…For example, an upgraded 69×88 dual port with factory heater boxes, stock heads (bored to these 90.5-sized jugs) with only a good, 3-angle valve job would perform better overall if the cam were limited to an Engle W100 or similar when running the stock 34mm carb — because the carb is still the limitation. (Stock cam with 1.25/1.3 rockers would breath a bit better than the stock 1:1 rockers.)A progressive (properly tuned — which can be a headache) or dual 34 ICTs or Solexes would allow a bit more cam — but I would recommend the Engle 110 ONLY for dual carbs. You likely wouldn’t like it’s lope (duration) at low RPMs with single carb, regardless of size. A Bugspray (like Roy is running) or a single Weber, though they’ll breath even better, is still limited by the long intake runners to each side of the engine, and the challenge of getting good carb preheat to keep the gas/air mixture from condensing. These engines simply LOVE dual carbs, where the preheat is not an issue (they get the needed heat transferred up through the shorter manifolds).A 69×88 engine with a mild cam like an Engle 100 (or stock cam with 1.25/1.3 rockers — I wouldn’t recommend 1.4s), stock 34mm carb (perhaps rejetted) and a 4:1 exhaust should give over 65 reliable HP — somewhere between 15% and 20% more than stock. Adding dual carbs (Kadrons, ICTs, Solexes) bumps it over 70HP. A bit more cam, a bit more carb like I’m building, and you approach 80HP… all this assuming properly jetted, timed and tuned, of course.Similarly, head work (porting/polishing or bigger valves), to get those stock heads to flow more will increase high-RPM HP while shifting the peak power up the RPM range. Increasing cam duration also moves the peak power up the RPM range — but you have to be careful with it, as it is EASY to over-cam a small engine, and if you do so, it will run poorly at lower RPMs (could even be worse than stock), give poor MPG, and drivability will suffer…Don’t forget that if you increase airflow into the engine, you have to increase the airflow out — and improving the exhaust burns no more fuel, yet improves both performance and gas mileage. A 4:1 extractor is recommended for use with the factory heater boxes. Replacing the restrictive heater boxes with J-tubes perform even better, but you lose provisions for cabin heat. A true tuned header system is the most efficient of all, but unless you’re drag racing, isn’t either practical or necessary for street driven cars with this size engine…KentT2014-01-06 13:52:14
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Kent, good words about VW carbs/manifolds/cams. Fisher, in his How to Hot Rod a VW seems to agree with most all your advice. But he seems to think that exhaust improvements are much more ripe for max hp vs cost improvements that you do. ??
For my next project, I am going to build a couple of intake manifolds and put 2 SU carbs on my 1600cc TDr. Why? Because I have never heard of anybody else doing it and I have rather extensive SU (and Zenith) experience. Why not?Any comments would be listened to very carefully. Unfortunately, I do not have any SU’s any longer and am torn between putting them on sp heads or waiting until I convert to dp heads. That would be done with going to a doghouse and other mods on my shopping list. $$$$I do have a spare set of sp heads and a couple of manifolds so may just go with SU’s on sp heads and see what happens. It’ll be fun.Anybody have any SU’s laying around that they don’t want/need?Kent, I may have a spare bugspray that is in good condition if you want to give Holley another go. I like mine. I have just the stock carb preheat hooked up with isolated runner manifold on my 1600sp. No icing problems at all (but I don’t drive in less than 40 degree weather.)All these posts about carbs etc should be moved to their own topic.Well, I’m certainly not in disagreement with Fisher. Airflow is the key, and you have to deal with both the intake side, and the exhaust side. Exhaust is certainly the cheapest and easiest to address first. Improving the exhaust will help the engine breath and perform better, run cooler, and get better gas mileage.
Putting an extractor on will give noticeably more mid-and-high range power, and you’ll find the engine wants to rev faster and farther — to a point. Then it becomes restricted by the amount of air coming in…Simple 1-3/8″ extractors with quiet packs are good for VWs up to about 90HP. But, the factory heater boxes aren’t — they’ll start restricting power at the 75-80HP range, forcing you to go to J-tubes or larger aftermarket heater boxes. Dual quiet packs will allow you to stretch that a little bit but not much — the restriction isn’t really the mufflers. Above that, you definitely need to run 1.5″ J-tubes or a tuned header, and likely something like a 1.5″ Phat Boy muffler. Above 120 HP or so, it becomes a tuning science all its own, similar to head porting…I wasn’t trying to recreate Fisher’s book here — 😀 — I was just trying to make sure I explained what I was doing, and caution anyone who might follow my lead. I’d hate for someone to recreate the same engine and be disappointed.BTW, Jake Raby (whose two engines are cited above) and Gene Berg (now deceased, his son Gary is running the business) have long been my mentors when it came to understanding high-performance VWs. They have the experience AND the equipment to thoroughly test what they do, and have always focused on quality and proven performance, not quantity…You’ll see a lot of folks on Samba, for example, blindly following the “bigger is better” mindset — these were the same type of guys who a few years ago were removing and throwing away all the thermostats and associated cooling tin, saying it wasn’t needed. Gene Berg,in comparison, tested airflow through the then-available shrouds (as has Jake, I think, more recently) and insisted on maintaining the factory system as far as you could and until you found it no longer met your needs. I think it was Jake who said the 36HP Scat shroud is the only one to consider for street use. When HP gets to 120 or so in street engines, the factory system is no longer sufficient. But, until then — maintain it, like you maintain your brakes…As far as carbs, thanks for the offer, but I want these HPMX (unless someone is giving away real IDAs). These isolated-barrel carbs allow tuning each cylinder independently. For example, if I find that #1 and #3 cylinders are running a little hot because of the restriction of the heater boxes, I can individually try to tune those to run a tad bit richer (i.e. cooler) if I want, while leaving #2 and #4 cylinders alone….BTW — it’s not just carb icing, it is atomization of the air fuel mixture. The fuel that has been mixed with the air at the carburetor tends to condense back out as droplets (think of steam, as an analogy) as it travels through a long carb runner. Keeping this air/fuel mixture heated helps reduce that, but some is inevitable the longer the mixture has to travel.Fuel/air is best mixed right before it is ignited, or as close as possible. That is why direct-port fuel injection is better than mixing it in a throttle-body then sucking it into the engine…KentT2014-01-06 15:09:34
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Kent, as you say “These isolated-barrel carbs allow tuning each cylinder independently”. For sure. Be careful what you wish for. I once had a 911s with a barrel for each jug. Ran like a scared rabbit – when it ran. Quicker, but not as fast as my brother’s XKE (if you know what I mean).
I just finished hooking my auto choke up on my bugspray.Please give me your thoughts on my SU experiment.I don’t have a whole lot of experience with SUs — basically just trying to keep my old ’74 MGB and my wife’s ’70 Midget running satisfactorily. So, I’ve synched them, but never tried to really improve their performance…
A. You’d likely be looking at some kind of cable linkage hookup…B. You’d definitely need a balance tube on a VW between the intakes, because of the pulses from its 1-4-3-2 firing orderC. You’d still be limited by the single-ports flow limitationsPeople run single-ports when they’re looking for torque, pure and simple. You can get 65-70 HP out of them with larger valves and D-ports, but is that what you want? By doing so, you’ve lost the thickness of the casting (and the inherent reliability and heat-transfer). Is that what you’re looking for? Do you want a “tractor engine” or a “sports-car” engine?Personally, I’d suggest you look toward dual-ports, then see if you could shoe-horn ICTs or Solexes into your engine bay. For example, if you changed your shroud to a 36HP style, you could have the intakes machined to bring them in closer to the center of the engine. I’ve even seen steel intakes for Solexes, which would mean you could have the plates cut off and welded back on to change the angle to more upright.I think you’d get more satisfactory results from the time/money spent. Both are inexpensive and IMO, carbs are carbs, for the most part. It’s the ability to tune them that makes the difference. Solex jets and Weber jets (and venturis) are readily available. (Sadly, Dellorto jets and venturis are not, though it may have been a better carb, especially the DRD singles.) The old Kadrons use Solex jets, but they’re physically huge for their size/airflow…Note that you may need to rebush the shafts on any of these, if they’re used… You can get either Kadrons or Solexes with electric chokes, but not the Weber ICTs. But, as you’ve likely discovered, electric chokes are not absolutely essential on what’s basically a warm-weather car…KentT2014-01-06 15:36:55
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...edsnova wrote:Yeah, but SUs will make it more TD-like though. Confusion to the enemy!:lol::lol::lol:If he knows how to tweak and tune SUs more power to him…He could also use Mikunis and confuse everybody!Roy, have you considered modifying your engine lid to get more room in the engine compartment? Fiberglass work might be the easiest way around your limitations — it shouldn’t be that difficult to make the engine lid wider, for example. I have about 36″ or so between my rear fenders. I’ve thought of splitting mine down the center, where the fake spare tire fits, and glassing in a section where most of it would be hidden by the spare.Then, I discovered the “fall-back” of the CB Performance manifolds for these, that reduces the overall width by a couple inches, if I use the 36HP-type shroud…KentT2014-01-06 17:28:31
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...You have 46″ between rear fenders? I have 38″. I have 31-5/8″ inside my engine cover. Not enough for dual carbs. I was all ready to do a sp-dp conversion and dual carb setup last winter but after measuring once, then twice etc, I finally was convinced that they just won’t fit in my TDr. So, I decided to learn to like the supposed better torque of a sp.
I have done fiberglass work before and am not afraid of it. But, really like the looks of mine and have ruled out cutting/enlarging/putting bubbles on my engine lid.No — I fatfingered that. Should be about 36″ (now corrected). My engine lid measures 34-5/8 on the outside and has a 1+” flat flange down the inside edges. The dual HPMXs are supposed to be about 34″ wide, but the Space Saver manifold kit for them reduces that to about 32″.
Since my engine lid is not hinged and held on with those spring-loaded T-handle latches, I’m going to see if I can finagle it on with trimming that flat flange. If I can’t, or I think they’ll rub, I’ll have to order that manifold kit.KentT2014-01-06 17:38:20
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Just received email confirmation that my carbs should be here tomorrow. That will let me soon make the decision of whether or not to order the CB Space Saver manifold kit, which then requires I order a 36HP doghouse shroud. Having perused lots of pics on Samba, it’s beginning to look like that intake/36HP shroud may be required. Progress is slowly inching forward in spite of this arctic blast!
Meanwhile, I decided to not even try the Empi single-tip exhaust. (Thanks, HappyJack, for the quick sale!!!) I don’t want to try to run it it initially, because these carbs need to run well enough “out of the box,” without much fiddling, to perform the initial start up and 15-20 minute cam break-in run. Temps are supposed to back up to around 60 by the weekend, so if I have the time and ambition, I may try to yank the 1500 and pull the heater-boxes off to put on the new engine. I think I may have found a guy locally who’ll let me use his test stand to initially fire this engine up and perform the cam break-in when I get to that point. That would certainly simplify my life, rather than having to do it in the car.Meanwhile just to reinforce the point that you don’t have to build monster engines to get performance, here’s a 1641cc engine putting out 113 brake HP (add 15-20% for HP at the crank):[TUBE]Da02zG5b4Gk[/TUBE]Lots of head work and porting to what was initially stock 35×32 041 heads, fairly radical cam, high compression, true 1.5″ tuned headers and dual Weber 48s — and lots of time, I’m sure. Far too radical for my tastes, but the potential is there without using huge pistons and stroker cranks (he’s running a stock crankshaft and rods.Mine is a budget build, using a few off-the-shelf components (heads, cam, lifters, oil pump, bearings, gland nut, clutch kit), rebuilt parts (crank, rods, case, flywheel), and some used parts (carbs, distributor, heater boxes, rockers and pushrods, and now an extractor/quietpack combo). I’m trying to balance cost vs performance, and cost vs reliability/durability at every point. As it looks now, I’m going to end up with more $$ in this engine than I initially paid for the entire car any way. Looks like I could end up on the north side of $2000 (with the heads being the biggest cost, by far) without paying for any labor. But, I could’ve easily spent about half that doing a quality rebuild of the 1500, and be left with a single-port 1600 (I wouldn’t have gone back with 1500 jugs/pistons) putting out about 55HP.Now, if I take care it, I should never need to build another one for it. It should perform reliably for 40,000-50,000 miles (or more), before needing fresh rings, cam and cam bearings, and valves freshened. (Cams and piston rings are the primary wear items on a cool running VW). Meanwhile, I have a foundation I can build on should I want to… as I stated earlier, solid rocker shafts are likely adds some time after I see how it runs on the road, and how hard I want to push it. I might want to upgrade the distributor at some point, if I can’t tune the 009’s famous flat spot out. Etc., etc., etc.All those types of things should be bolt-ons to this solid foundation. Sure, I could split the case and upgrade the crank to a 74mm fully counterweighted one (along with stroker rods), which would yield an 1800cc engine. Or, I could swap out the jugs/pistons for even larger 90.5 (1776cc with this crank) or 92s (1835cc, with this crank) — the machine work is already done.But as the video above hopefully shows, I don’t think I’ll ever need it, or I would’ve taken a different initial path…Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Wow. Dual 48s on a 1641 just seems insane to me. But that’s almost certainly more HP than my Soob will have.
The mouse that roared….
I thought the same thing, and then I saw the “stock crank and rods” and thought WTF? I think he has it rev-limited to 5500 RPM — probably to prevent crank damage — but still….Those big IDAs sure sound sweet when he gets it up past 4,000 RPM though. Play it again, and it sounds like the engine actually gets quieter, as the air rushing into them drowns out the valve rattle… he’s making music with it!KentT2014-01-08 08:25:07
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Well the 40 HPMX carbs/intakes/linkage arrived, and I tried a dry fit this morning of just the carbs/intakes bolted on. While I likely could trim my engine lid’s flat inside flanges to clear them, it would be tight, requiring me to still jiggle the engine lid down over the carbs before latching it down. Then, I still might get interference or rubbing with the fuel inlet hoses on the carbs should the engine lid vibrate around any, just clamped on. So, I’m going to order the CB Performance space saver kit and the required 36HP Scat doghouse shroud:
I’m definitely going to end up with an outlay of over $2000 in this adventure. But, I’ll have the used 1500SP that I can likely sell and recoup a bit of that… It’s only money, right?
Looks like I should still be able to access the idle jet adjustment screws after swapping the carbs from side to side with this kit — which was a concern. Temps are supposed to be up to about 60 this weekend, though rainy. I may get a chance to yank the 1500 out, and start swapping the heater boxes onto the new engine.Geez, I hate winter weather!Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Next step of engine build complete. I was able to get access to a shop with a VW test setup — a cutaway tranny — and accomplished initial startup and cam break-in with no complications, using existing HPMX manifolds and some J-tubes and engine tin that I borrowed. (Didn’t get the 1500 SP yanked out last weekend — had a birthday party to attend during the only decent window of weather.)
Engine started right up and idled at about 1,000 RPM. Just a bit of carb tweaking and it ran smoothly at 2500-3000 RPM for the break-in. Had to push the throttle on down a couple times to see what it would do. I’m a happy camper — it revs VERY quick with the 13.5 lb flywheel, and it wants to go 5,000 RPM or more — I didn’t try that but once. Initial impressions:1. Solid rockers are going to be essential — it wants to rev quick (maybe too quick with my heavy right foot) with these carbs and lightened flywheel! I don’t trust the factory rocker clips and wavy washers up there over 4500 RPM for long…2. Drained the oil, and saw nothing out of the ordinary. But, I did decide that with this investment, I’m going to go a tad farther and install a CB Performance full-flow filter pump while it is new and fresh: http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1791This is a proven, decent quality pump, in the smaller 26mm size (many/most aftermarket filter pumps are 30mm). Note that large oil pumps and thick oil are counter-productive to VWs — the oil bypass system is designed to bypass the oil cooler at somewhere between 42-45 PSI. If you put too big an oil pump on them, you’re actually reducing cooling capability, and wasting the power to run the bigger pump…3. Because it wants to rev so freely, I’m going to add one additional “insurance policy” to protect the valvetrain, and to prevent pounding out the engine’s main journals with this non-counterweighted crank. A 5400 RPM rev-limiting rotor button. It shuts off the spark to the plugs at that level:So, it’s back home, ready for the next step of pulling these carbs back off to swap on the new space saver manifolds that are supposed to arrive today, remove the head tins and re-torque the heads, and clean up, paint and install the heater boxes. Would’ve liked to have test run it with the restrictive heater boxes instead of the freer-flowing J-tubes to have more of a sense of what it’s REALLY going to end up like, but “Oh well”…I’ll have to re-tweak and balance the carbs any way, since they’ll be swapped to the opposite sides of the engine with the space-saver manifolds, new (shorter) linkage, and the added restriction of the heater boxes. Now, to order what is hopefully the last major round of pieces/parts (above), and try to find enough decent weather to work outside under the carport…I still need to install the electric fuel pump on the car that I ordered for these carbs. I chose this low-pressure rotary pump with internal pressure-regulator to feed these carbs. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Rotary-Electric-Fuel-Pump-3-25-psi-7mm-Fittings-p/rotary.htmSelf-contained (one less potential leaking point) and designed to provide consistent fuel pressure at a level these carbs should handle. Note that I could’ve retained the factory pump (they’ll pump enough fuel) but I would’ve needed to add a fuel pressure-regulator between it and the carbs, if I had done so. Factory mechanical pumps will produce fuel pressure based on engine RPM, and at high RPM are capable of producing 7 PSI or more. These carbs need to restricted to no more than 3.5 PSI. So that would’ve required possibly shimming the mechanical pump to reduce pressure, while testing pressure after each mod to make sure I had enough fuel pressure at low RPM and not too much at high RPM, and for safety, still install a pressure regulator between the factory mechanical pump and the carbs. It’s far simpler/easier just to remove the factory pump, and go with an electric, internally-regulated electric pump….I’ll be looking to mount it on the bulkhead up front, below the gas tank (for gravity feed — electric pumps like to push instead of suck), close to the battery. I’ve also ordered a VW Rabbit fuel pump relay to install. These provide (a) pumping while switch is in start position (b) no pumping if the switch is on and no spark to the engine (engine died, accident, etc.) for safety. They monitor spark to the engine through the same side of the coil that the tach does.Also want to install, shim and adjust the new solid rockers before installing the engine in the car. I’m sticking to stock 1.1:1 ratio, though the cam could handle 1.25:1. That higher ratio would’ve required double valve springs and heavier-duty pushrods for the increased spring pressure. Increasing the spring pressure also increases cam wear and just generally complicates things. At 5400 RPM, with only single HD springs, the stock pushrods should be able to handle the pressure without valve float. We’ll see…I did get new 1.1:1 rocker with swivel-foot adjusting screws (easier adjustment, less wear on valve stem ends) with the solid rocker shafts by buying a complete kit, rather than just the solid shafts. One other thing that I put on the shopping list, after hearing the excitement of this thing run, and how quick it revs — a 1.5 quart deep sump. This will accomplish several objectives, though it will cost me close to 2″ of ground clearance under the engine:1. Additional oil for cooling and operating is always a good thing… the combination of a full-flow filter and the additional oil should allow me to increase the service interval to 4,000-5,000 miles when it is time to check the exhaust valve clearance any way… Basically once a year, with my estimated driving.2. Reduces the risk of oil starvation in hard or long turns, especially at higher RPMs, as the oil in the crankcase sloshes to the side and most of it has been pumped up to the rocker shafts, etc.3. Avoids the hassles of trying to install a windage tray under the lifters inside the engine, that are often used to control/reduce oil sloshing. I’ve only done that a couple times in the past, and found that trimming and fitting them a real PITA, as is holding them in place as you install the other half of the engine case.I chose the proven Scat design that retains the stock VW oil drain plate and doesn’t require special gaskets like some others do. One of these, though from a different vendor:Hope someone finds this info useful on my continuing saga as I ponder, plan and execute…Hopefully, I’ll have this thing ready to take a run on the Tail of the Dragon next summer. But, that now has me planning changing the front suspension, and adding disc brakes…It never ends…KentT2014-01-17 20:37:00
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Kent said something in his last post which I think worthy of repeating:
“Note that large oil pumps and thick oil are counter-productive to VWs — the oil bypass system is designed to bypass the oil cooler at somewhere between 42-45 PSI. If you put too big an oil pump on them, you’re actually reducing cooling capability, and wasting the power to run the bigger pump…”Or,If your VW engine is running hot, try running 10W30 oil. Previous owner of mine said that he ran 20w50. It ran hot. Changed it to 10w30 and all’s well. With 20w50 my oil cooler wasn’t allowed to cool the oil because the pressure was so high the cooler bypass system thought the engine was not yet warmed up.Good words Kent.Thanks, Roy…
Glad to see that my musings and verbosity are of some value…One other thing, I’ll add for posterity. Though I’m now replacing a new, virtually un-used Brazilian VW oil pump, doing it the way I did before upgrading to the filter pump had one distinct advantage.All the metal shavings, metallic sludge, etc. from the initial break-in was readily visible on my factory oil plate with magnetic drain plug. Cam and lifter particles were trapped on the magnet, such as they were, and any bearing particles or machining left-overs that I couldn’t get cleaned out were on the factory oil screen and lying on top of the drain plate…If I’d gone with the oil filter from the get-go, I’d have had to cut open the filter and try to find and inspect this stuff. Bottom line, if you’re doing a “sequential build” like this one is turning out to be, you may want to use a good used, well-known oil pump for initial break-in, then put a full-flow filter on it…KentT2014-01-17 15:42:11
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...SO THAT’s why all those SOC knuckleheads are running electric fuel pumps! I could not for the life of me understand the attraction of it. Your explanation about the fuel pressure sensitivity of the dual carbs really clears that up.
Hey, too: you will never, ever be able to float your valves under 6000 rpm. Those single springs are gonna work fine with the 1.1 solid shafts, and once there’s a load on the engine your chances of over-revving will fall dramatically. Imho, it’s the left foot you’ll need to be careful of–not the right one.Good on ya.Thanks for the vote of confidence, Ed. I’m guessing the peak power on this thing will be about 4750 RPM or something close — almost definitely not past 5,000 with these heater boxes. With this light of a car, I don’t think I’ll need to be over 5,000 often on the street. I’m not building a dragster — I trying to turn this thing into a fun sports car… that’s rock solid and reliable. 6,000 RPM-plus VW engines that will hold together get real expensive, real fast…
Yep, the rev limiter is an insurance policy for my left foot and right hand — a missed shift could be dangerous with this much carb and cam — it seems to really want to rev, at least with the J-tubes on it. The heater boxes will likely calm it down some…Speaking of which, I’m just going with a new stock-replacement Sachs clutch/pressure combo for a VW bus. 1200lb pressure plate, with spring-center clutch plate. Sachs used to be good OEM replacement quality, though some posts on Samba seem to question if the quality is still there — but I wonder if part of that may be trying to run them on monster engines instead of feisty mouse motors like mine. I certainly didn’t want a 1750-lb Kennedy Stage I pressure plate — I ran one of those once on a bus (wanted towing capability and the power to launch a heavy load). I don’t think I’ll need anything more to launch 1300 lbs of weight, and it should be relatively smooth in daily driving — though I’ve never used one with a lightened flywheel. That could make a difference…And I don’t want to abuse my stock tranny… I’m thinking it only has 53,000 miles on it, but I don’t want the expense of HD side plates, Super Diffs, etc., if I can avoid it. Again, a mouse not a monster…KentT2014-01-17 20:42:59
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Kent, I’m going with the Kennedy Stage 1 (and the super diff and heavy side plate, etc) on Bridget because of the Suby. What was your bad experience with the stage 1 pressure plate?
I don’t think what you’re building and how you plan to drive it will require anything more than stock Type 1 stuff, which I’m told was pretty nicely over-built. You’re going to be around 80 horse and the same torque. Kids these days are running 120 hp (and claiming they’re 180) and slamming the gears all day long. That’s why they break parts, I agree.The clutch disk I need is coming from Canada for $135, supposedly. Ouch, but, I don’t think I’ll feel like doing that job more than once.I just bought a new stock-type 8-inch disk I can’t use & would like to sell for under $20. The bus one is a little bigger?The Kennedy Stage I didn’t cause any problems — it would just wear my left leg out if I got caught in traffic or something. It “locked up” nice and smooth, and didn’t slip, which was my goal. It was in a ’64 Bus with the reduction box axles and a final drive ratio of about 6:1 or something (don’t remember the actual numbers). All I remember was swapping out the gears in the reduction boxes for ’67 model (last year of reduction boxes) to get a higher (numerically lower) drive ratio for highway speeds, after I built the bigger engine for it. I was living in Homestead Florida at the time, often fighting traffic in South Miami, and dealing with the heat/humidity. I had a trailer hitch on the Bus, and was always using it to tow other Bugs and small cars around… even towed a Pinto from TN to Homestead.
The Kennedy worked fine, it was just STIFF…Stock Bugs, Ghias, etc. use about a 900 lb pressure plate, if my memory is correct. The Bus used the slightly stiffer 1200 lb pressure plate. Only difference is the spring pressure, AFAIK. I thought for mine that the 1200lb would be plenty given expected HP/torque numbers in this light of car…Clutch plate is stock 200mm on both Bugs and Busses with 1500/1600 engines. Bugs were typically spring-center for smoother engagement while Busses were solid-center for better lock-up under heavy load… As I understand it, solid centers won’t chatter like spring-centers, but aren’t as smooth in daily use. I went with the spring-center for the TDr largely because of using a lightened flywheel, the low weight of the car, and honestly didn’t put a whole lot of thought into it…1750 is probably prudent for your Subie’s torque/HP numbers…KentT2014-01-18 11:13:03
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Ah, got it. So I have the longer clutch release arm on the new transaxle but it won’t completely make up for it.
Hopefully it won’t bother me. I drove for years an old Nova V8 with a single-disk rig at 10.4 inches. I don’t know what the plate was rated at but it was pretty stiff. Used to break the cross shaft (AKA Z-bar) every few years; I kept an extra in the trunk.
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