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A PS to the above note…
I will post this in the cowl bracket thread also, but Prototype Research sells the windshield frame castings for $410. Ouch. But who knows, someone might think it’s worth it!PMOSSBERG2015-07-21 15:00:25
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
The most obvious “tells” between Daytona and Fiberfab MIGI’s:
If it has the headlight buckets bolted directly to the radiator shell it is a Daytona.
If the radiator shell is slightly (but noticeably) shorter, it is a Daytona.
If the windshield is attached to the tub with a TD similar heavy duty cast aluminum bracket it is a Daytona.
(note that the converse is not necessarily true)
Royal, the last part isn’t necessarily true. My TDr came with the heavy duty aluminum brackets similar to a real TD, but my car is marked “Fiberfab” and I have the original purchase receipt from 1983 showing payment to “Fiberfab International.” My car also doesn’t have the other characteristics of a Daytona that you mentioned. Maybe the cast aluminum brackets were an option?
Plenty of good info to hear about, thanks all!This had me looking through the notebook of papers given to me by the original owner. I have the brochure saying Migi on it, along with the order invoice showing the Minneapolis, MN, origination from August 1983. A year before the title date from Miami, FL.I can only wonder if this is because of a transitional period between FF and CMC.I’ve seen pictures of others with the same flat bar fender to radiator headlight mounts, including gooseneck wire tubes. However, mine has windshield cowls and I don’t see that on the CMC’s.My car was completed at a place in Knoxville, TN, called Specialty Autoworks. Maybe explaining some changes like that.Specialty Autowerks. I wonder if that’s a predecessor to SAS. Same neighborhood. http://www.specialtyauto.com
John, it is possible that the cast aluminum brackets were an option on FF TDr’s. I have an August 1975 FF price list that shows that the “deluxe body kit includes one special MiGi windshield complete with safety glass”. There were a lot of other “upgrades” from the “basic kit”. The Basic kit $1495. Deluxe kit $1895.
What exactly a special windshield kit was ……I dunno.
I should have attached the standard global disclaimer to my earlier post: True, except where it isn’t. Or as Elvis said: “Exactly the same, only different.”(….sounds more like Yogi than Elvis.)
Well, I only skimmed over all the papers when I got the car so I discovered some new things I wasn’t aware of.
The kit name was called MG TD VW Executive on the inventory list, while order invoice says Deluxe instead.Although Knoxville was mentioned for the final build at Specialty Autoworks, now I’ve found out it was at New Tazwell, TN, and if you look at their web page you’ll be able to see where they tell you search words you can use.The infamous Street Beasts is there, along with CMC. This car was actually worked on by them around 1989, or 6 years after kit was bought March 1983. So far I couldn’t confirm the completion date, just know there was a letter written to the car’s owner from 1989 about doing the work (whatever it was).Original sales invoice (from FF) says “post caps”, which might be the windshield brackets. Same thing on inventory list but it just says 1, not pair or 2. Yet it doesn’t seem to be a very minor thing since the only other items on the invoice besides the ‘deluxe’ kit are the tonneau cover, Lucas signals, and a couple others there.Oh, and invoice/order number is F1801, not that it helps with any of this idea of counting cars.LRH2015-07-22 00:19:28
Speaking of the cast aluminum brackets being options … maybe so. When I took the original seats out of my car, I found the original receipt for the cashier’s check to pay for for the kit. The original purchaser paid $4895 to Fiberfab International on August 3, 1983. That’s TRIPLE the “Deluxe” kit price from 1975. Either there were a lot of options on my kit or a lot of inflation, or maybe both. Come to think of it, there WAS a lot of inflation during the Carter administration … but still, could inflation triple the price in only 8 years?
That’s $1000 less during same time period! I mistakenly said March 1983 buy date, could swear I had seen that someplace in those papers, but invoice says March 19, 1984.I was also going to show the price I have here, didn’t recall the exact number when writing so looked again.
$5895 for this “TD VW Executive” kit, comprised of around 125 items (not individual parts). Nothing really stands out as being particularly special, if I read it right.Cost for “build” is said to be $6579, minus $500 because apparently someone else was referred to them to get their car built there. Took 2 years from initial contact to final payment, near as I can tell. Labor charge alone was $4000!Could mean the total cost was approx. $12000. Makes me wonder how that’s better than buying a restored real MG TD!😉😕What’s confusing to me is how the build company appears to include the VW stuff and “kit”, as if that’s already in the price to complete it. The builder has their own inventory list, basically mimicking the Fiberfab one… just not exactly the same.Another discovery from all this… engine displacement is 1680 cc, and it was originally going to be 1735 cc. Donor car was a 1970 ‘Bug’, not a ’69 as I had thought before.LRH2015-07-22 02:49:16
I also have a FF price list for a “MIGI II – effective 7/20/77” which lists the price at $1875 for the “basic body kit”.
(The windshield is no longer described as “special” but now is “aluminum framed”)The 8/75 price list above seems awfully close on the heels of the 2/75 introduction by Daytona of its MiGi. Since this is only a price list, I wonder if any Fiberfabs were actually built in ’75.
If anyone wants to put all this stuff together and hopefully get an idea of when these cars were made, I have a 12/1/81 Daytona MiGi price list that shows $2595 for the “basic body kit” Fold-down windshield brackets are an additional $20.
Pretty sure there’s no such thing as a 1680 cc VW engine. 😉
The first levels of upgrades to a stock 1600cc engine are 1641cc and 1776ccPaul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Didn’t someone on this site have one with old-school aftermarket jugs that got near 1680?
Ah, here it is: 88 bore x 69 stroke. 1679 cc.I believe the 88 bore is as large as you can go without machining the case and fly-cutting the heads. I’ve seen 88 mm pistons for sale but know nothing about the quality.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackSomeone had crossed out the printed 1735 and wrote 1680. Definitely an 8 not a zero, and nothing else to correct that. The engine is said to be either reconditioned or remanufactured, I forget now, but it’s one of those with a blank area for the serial number. I’ve found more online now of what was told about the 88 bore and others at samba.com and elsewhere saying 1680cc. Maybe some number rounding up going on. Glad to learn whatever I can, so thanks for pointing me in that direction.
I learn something every day.
Now I know about 1680cc VW engines.Does that mean I can leave work and head home now?Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Yep – rounding. Stock 69mm crank x 88mm pistons/cylinders = 1679cc displacement.
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...newkitman wrote:I believe the 88 bore is as large as you can go without machining the case and fly-cutting the heads. I’ve seen 88 mm pistons for sale but know nothing about the quality.There’s new 88mm thickwall cylinders based on the 90.5mm castings that are quite reliable. Thicker cylinder walls than the stock 85.5s so they run cool and don’t distort and wear out as fa??t as thinner castings. Requires the heads be machined to fit the 90.5 castings, but require no machining of the case for the larger jugs. But, this leaves the bottom of the cylinder that goes into the case with very thin sidewalls. If that deck surface on the case isn’t perfectly flat, the cylinder walls can crack there inside the case from the cylinder “rocking” that can occur if the the heads aren’t torqued exactly right – and remain that way. As a precaution, I’d recommend that the heads are retorqued after engine bresakin. Even better, have the case spot-faced to make sure the deck surface is perfectly flat – but that requires removing the studs and a trip to the machine shop – which kind of defeats the whole original purpose…
That’s why I chose machine-in 88s for my new engine. Thicker sidewalls for cooler running and durability inside the case, inside the head, and everywhere in between. I had to take the used case to the machine shop any way, to have them check the line bore (required .010 to clear them up) and had them machine for the 90.5 castings and spot-faced the mounting decks while it was there. (I ordered my new heads all ready machined for the 90.5 castings.)
End result – larger displacement than stock, but runs cooler and should last as long or longer than stock 85.5s WHILE boosting compression from stock 7.5:1 to somewhere in the 8.0-8.2:1 ratio for more power (above the increase in displacement) while still running 87 octane regular gas. About the same HP as simply bolting on 90.5s (aka 1776cc) and leaving the compression low – but with better cooling and improved reliability…
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...We drifted, nothing unusual about that. 😉
But there’s some good engine build info here that should really be restarted and continued in a separate thread!Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
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