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Great job Ed. Keep it up!
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackWoo-Hoo. Even if it’s just a test fit.
And believe me, I know. Had my engine in/out twice and body/off on three timesSpent a couple of hours today trimming fiberglass and working out how to fit the Sooby and drive train. It is very close.
Bottom line: I need about 3/4 of an inch, but I can only get a half without cutting out something metal and hard to replace, so no second test fit yet.Longer version on my blog.edsnova2013-12-01 21:30:35
Ed, If you don’t commit to one technique or the other by Wednesday, Happy Jack will be back in town. You may recall that his 200hp/2332cc BCW was lengthened to allow for the huge carbs/air cleaners and extractor exhaust. It is so well done that it is quite difficult to determine exactly how it was done – all the proportions look good. All of this “lengthening” was done in the engine box/gas tank area and might be an approach or solution you want to consider.
As much as Happy Jack will talk your ear off, he doesn’t really participate in this forum as much as I wish. He not only has two TDrs but is mechanically pretty savvy. I’ll try to remember to mention it to him but, you may want to send him a PM. (He’s also somewhat of a semi-pro photographer, and would enjoy taking whatever pictures you might want.)Great blog.Thanks, Roy. I am relatively sure I won’t be sawing on this car before Wednesday & will welcome Jack’s advice and pictorial. Don’t think anyone here has seen even a medium-distance shot of this alleged hot-rod BCW.;)
If I were doing this, first thing I would do would be to remove all the glass (fenders, gas tank, splash pan) except for the body itself. Then get the engine to fit and reverse the process. Glass work can cover up much. Remember that the original gas tank has already been doubled in size to accomodate the VW engine. A little more can’t hurt.
Thanks, Gabe, but no. The fenders aren’t (so far at least) in the way of anything. I’ll take those off only if I must.
And the tank ends on this car are just about the size and shape of the original TD. It’s bigger in the middle only.
I’m not afraid of glass work. I just think I can move the engine an inch (or less) more easily. We’ll see if I’m wrong.
Hey Ed,
I’m back home and would be glad to post some pics of how the previous owner lengthened my BCW to fit that fat air-cooled engine into the car. But he extended the back end quite a few inches, so if you just need 3/4 inch the PO’s method may be overkill in your situation. Let me know if you want some pics posted or emailed to you. Later, JackWelp, cut the front tranny mount out today and tried to install the engine and trans together, thinking the extra leeway would let me get it in over the subframe. Nope.
Took it out, separated the components and set the transaxle back in as far forward as I could, with the rubber mount attached. I also shimmed it up with a bit of wood to try to get it close to where it will be when it’s mounted.Then the engine. Got it back in with two jacks and a 2×6 under the pan to keep everything steady. Got three studs through the transaxle and hand-tightened the nuts.Here’s where it was when I was done. The low line was where the edge of the valve cover was on first install, with all the mounts as normal. The X line was my goal–if the back edge of the valve cover is even with that, my body panels will cover the engine:
HA!I went back to the front of the trans to see if I could fit my reverse light sender. I could. Settled the whole assembly back about a quarter inch to open up enough space between that front mount and the torsion tube so I could (theoretically) slip a cut-down frame mount back in there and weld it up.Basically, then, this plan should work. I only have to figure out how to actually mount the engine.Been trying to get the rear trans cradle to reverse. That hasn’t worked so far.Today I put the engine in with the Soob mounts in place. They’re nice and beefy.Looks like I could make something to come off the frame horns and/or the steel subframe. It would have to extend 6 1/2 inches back and be three inches wide on each side to envelop the Soob mounts.They would likely interfere with my supposed exhaust pipe routing.I’ll crawl back under it tomorrow and ponder some more.So, more progress. The only suggestion that I could make would be: Don’t forget to wash your hands and clean your fingernails before you eat dinner.
If I were to attempt something like this, my first purchase would be a 4 point car lift.Way to go, Ed. Keep plugging away, it’ll work out.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Thanks for those, Jack. I so very much want to get a ride in that beast. Please do get it on the road!
That said: Looks like he sectioned the sides and added about four inches. Then he extended the spare tire carrier pipes likewise.Underneath he would have had to do the same to the box frame–i.e. weld a four-inch extension to each side–so the spare tire carrier could connect there.Then the apron too. And there’s still that four-inch wide gap all along the top.Can anyone else see why my idea of moving the engine forward an inch might make more sense–at least in my own case?
Getting it on the road is easy — keeping it cool may be the hard part…
Here’s a picture of the back end with all of the panels in place, but the spare still off…
JackJack, it’s pretty obvious from your bottom pic that it was the tuned (equal-length) Fat Boy headers that caused most of the issues for the initial builders.
Yes, the stroker crank made the engine wider (what? 3/4″ on each side?) pushing those big carbs farther apart, but most of the mods had to deal with those headers…Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...http://www.ebay.com/bhp/vw-engine-tin
Disagree. Much of the added space is up top, to accommodate those big carbs and their air cleaners. The stock BCW engine room is so tight that even the smallest aftermarket air cleaner placed atop a single tiny 28mm PICT carb will not clear–you have to make a snorkel with a remote filter–and that center section is already widened by the factory, and hidden under the spare tire.To get dual carbs on a BCW you have to mod the tank/engine cover as Jack’s PO did. Headers are certainly another headache, and I’ve no doubt those mods depicted were done in part for header clearance as well. But the small area–the area that on BCWs is in fact ludicrously smaller than in any other TDr I’ve seen–is the top-of-the-tank area. It was all done that way to get the BCW’s rear to look more TD-ish. And it does, sort of.But at some substantial cost in potential performance.In fact, even putting a center-mounted Weber Progressive carb on a BCW would mean cutting the fiberglass behind the spare tire. There is just no way to make a normally modded Type 1 engine fit.Again, this is why I opted for the Soob.edsnova2013-12-29 21:21:51
By the way: Progress. I think I have the rear mount licked.
You wouldn’t try licking that mount here in Iowa today because your tongue would be stuck to the metal.
It is 0*F here now.:|I spent a winter in Swift County, MN. I feel for you…never again.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Four years in Nebraska myself – still get think about the cold – in VA now – still to cold – Texas next.
Can take the heat but never the cold.
Keep going Ed – can’t wait to see the results.
First dibs on a drive if you are offering at Carlisle
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