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No, this is not a political discussion. I am hoping someone has thoughts concerning title procurement for undocumented replicas. Even though it was born right here in Nevada my ‘Vicki’ does not have a real VIN number. It was bought from a wanna-be builder who got it from another, and so on. Now that it’s complete, DMV does not want to be nice and grant it citizenship so they can start to collect fees from me. I was told they can’t (or won’t) assign it a number because I can not PROVE it was purchased Legitimately. The prvious owner gave me as bill of sale but a bill of sale can easily be faked. DMV wants a Cert. of Origin or a title. How can you get that if the original manufacturer is long gone and Vicki never was built by anyone before ? Any thought would be most welcomed. Signed -Lost in Las Vegas.
Could you present a photographic record of the build, along with receipts for parts, labor, etc?
1981 Lafer TI
1600 cc Type 1 engineTried to tell them it was built from scratch and they say the frame portion of any street vehicle must be manufactured and invoiced from a company. Does anyone know what a C.of O. from any kit supplier even looks like ? Somebody must have run into this situation before.
Also I have pictures of the build along the way from fame up to body install which were given to DMV. They say that does not prove the original frame was owned by the seller when he sold it to me. They are playing CYA for any theft that could have occurred.
Nevada DMV has a form for this purpose. You need the form anyway to be exempt from smog testing. Google Nevada DMV Form VP-64. Part II, Page 2, applies directly to you. I’d send it but I’m out of town for 10 more days and you can just download the PDFs from the DMV.
Got DMV form 64Part II. Got it filled out. I am a DMV authorized Repair Garage. Got my licence on the wall, paid my fees. I think I will have to get in some ones face !
Has it ever been titled? If so, I’d think that a chain of evidence via bills of sale or title transfers would suffice. For new builds, it is not unusual for them to want an MSO on the kit. Unfortunately, laws can vary widely from state to state. According to the DMV site for Nevada, a bill of sale should suffice.
http://www.dmv.org/nv-nevada/other-types-of-vehicles.php#Custom-Built-VehiclesEdit: I was so slow posting that I missed key parts. I agree that you should take all your documentation to show, then talk to a manager…KentT2015-03-04 23:21:37
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...I’m going back with the bill of sale and form 64 (after I cool off). Don’t want to go postal in the DMV. Hopefully can find a willing ear. I shouldn’t think this is unsolvable. It must happen sometimes.
I got lucky and got contact info for the car manufacturer and he mailed me a certified Manufacturer Statement of Origin letter, signed by him. Only problem I had registering the vehicle was paying the fine for not registering it right away. I waited 4 years till I got it to this stage of build. Fine was $200. GA has to get their doh-re-me one way or another. Plus I paid an extra $90 to get her titled.
Dealing with the DMV should be painless but alas it is not. Just hang in there and you’ll get it done.
newkitman2015-03-04 22:47:21Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackOh, Man, sorry for your troubles, Doug. As you say, the best way is calmness, patience, having a stack of reasonable evidence and going up the chain. Sometimes you can get it done by shopping DMV offices too, I hear.
You’ll get it done.Good luck with your kit. I have a Gazelle kit on the driveway that I cant get registered due to smog laws. Im just going to part it out. I vowed to never own a car that needs smog. Its pre 1975 for me from here on out. Good riddens to big government regulations.
It took me 2 years to jump through Ca. hoops to transfer pre built MG TDr in CA. Had to get smog at referee station. Operator insisted he had to put fan in front of the radiator. It is vw powered. Had to get it inspected by CHP. He asked why I was there. He said that 1/2 of the cars he inspected got shot down in Sacramento. for un known reasons. Yes Ca. is a crap suit for kit cars. Friend has a Cobra kit car and after it was registered State called him in to examine it after he had it registered and titled. I think the way to do it the next time I will take car out of Ca. to relatives state register it there and then bring it back in to state unless I stay there with car. Good luck Rick. Keep plugging away. Might be lucky and find person at DMV that can read the Vehicle Code Manual.
Thats why I made sure that Eliza Jane was smog exempt. Its rare to find a kit car in CA that doesnt need smog so I just look at it as bringing more value to her. I really love my car!
Thanks for the ideas. I will try all the avenues. Some one suggested having a mechanics lien put on it as though it were left at the shop with a big rebuild bill. That way ,regardless of past ownership issues, the state grants a lien title to the shop to cover expenses. With no one to object to the bill the state would issue a new title and avoid the hassles of confirming ownership. Worth a try. But like you say , DMV can arbitrarily follow a different set of rules as it sees fit. Maybe shop DMVs on different days. It’s like doing your income taxes, Ask five tax experts and get six different answers to the same request.
It finally happened..Got amnesty for Vicki. She is now a legal resident. Title came after 5 months . Had to put a lien sale on it to obtain REAL ownership. Nevada DMV gave me registration and full citizenship. Course I had to pay the fine (60$ fee) and she has to learn to drive American. She will not need to have her tailpipe probed (smoged) due to her titled age. I think she will assimilate quickly, though she may prefer to hang out with others from her own country. Victory is ours !
Congrats, Doug!
Vicenç - (bee sense)
Pembroke Pines, FL
1986 Aston - BCW Model 52 - "Montse II"(1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse")
Congratulations!
Leave it to the politicos to make our live just that much more challenging!
But now you can cruise the Nevada sunsets!
Have FUN!!!
Amor Conquista Todo
Congrats! I’m very gad it all worked out!
And your car is beautiful!
I’m not surprised you had to go the mechanics lien route. Most front engine TDr kits came with a custom chassis from the kit manufacturer. And at some point there was an MSO that applied to the kit and the chassis. The “bureaucrats” were really just doing their jobs in this case. They either need to see the MSO, or if the car had been completed and titled, the signed title transfer.
Lesson learned here…when you buy a used kit, built or not, the paperwork is as important as the kit.
I’m glad this one had a happy ending!
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Doug. Glad for you that its all over. When I register my TDr I’ll would have had to pay a $90.00 penalty for not registering it within 90 days of purchase. I told the person at the DMV that it takes way longer than 90 days to home build a car. She considered this and waved the $90 fee. She thought I purchased the car built. Now I just have to decide if I want a title or not. In Georgia, a Bill of Sale is all that’s required for any vehicle older than a 1975 vehicle. My VW base is a 71 so I’m good. A title will cost me more and add to the paperwork headaches but I’m leaning towards getting her titled.
newkitman2015-10-17 17:04:06Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackIf, by any chance, you should decide to ever sell your creation you may need a title. I bought the pieces to mine from a fellow in Illinois who gave up after starting 20 % of the job. I know now never proceed without the proper docs. I think it could be bought from someone out of state like I did, (unless you plan on keeping it to the end). Good luck and enjoy the build.
Congrats, Doug. Glad you finally met with success. I’ll be going through the Nevada DMV process soon. In my case, I start with a Utah title in hand but the Utah registration plate that had been glued to the car disappeared during the painting process, and I don’t know if they will notice that the title assignment was October 2014, not 2015, and now the car is green, not red. So this will be lots of fun, I’m sure.johnsimion2015-10-18 01:01:22
Allen, I strongly recommend you get a title.
Most states still require titles for all vehicles, regardless of age.
Even if you never sell your car, your heirs will appreciate having a clean title!
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Thanks all. I have a MSO from Fiberfab and the Bill of Sale so I’ll get Moneypenny registered this spring hopefully as a 1952 VW MGTD replica. Not sure how they will title her but I will get the title.
Maybe they’ll register her the same way they Title her.Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackAllen, everything you always wanted to know about titling specialty cars in Georgia:
http://www.semasan.com/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_GA.pdf
See page 16.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
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