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OK VW guys and gals….I’ve answered a lot of questions here. It’s pay back time.
The new 1776 ran great. For about 30 miles. Then it started to hesitate. Now it will not start.
Here’s what I can tell ya.
Cap, points, rotor, plugs and plug wires are new.
The coil is old. But I did swap in a new one and there was no difference.
Static timed to 5 degrees ATDC, per Muir’s book.
Dwell is at 50 degrees, also per Muir’s book. I checked it while while cranking, which is not as accurate as when the engine is running. But that’s just an annoying Catch 22 at the moment.
Engine was just built and only run about 30 miles. I haven’t checked, but it’s hard to believe the valves are out of adjustment. Besides, the engine would still run if they were.
The car will start with a couple shots of starter fluid. I think that proves there is spark at the cylinders.
I can’t test fuel pressure, but there is fuel flow. Thirty seconds of cranking will pump over an inch into a jar with three inch diameter. So I’m sure the fuel line is not clogged. And if that amount of fuel flow sounds about right, then the fuel pump is working okay.
Screen in fuel pump was immaculate when I opened it up.
Fuel filter is new.
I guess there is the obvious possibility that the jets are clogged. But I find it hard to believe the jets in both both carburetors clogged at the same time. Especially since the old fuel filter was not bad and the pump screen is clean. I mean geez, these cars will run on two cylinders! Carburetors are Solex PICT34’s.
I think the tank is filled with a 90/10 gas ethanol blend. Hard to find anything else around here. But I don’t think 30 miles on 90/10 would harm anything.
I think that covers it.
Ideas?
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul,
from your description of running when starter fluid is introduced, it has to be a fuel delivery issue. all other tests and stats would appear to be too deep of an analysis for this problem.Suggest- feeding some new gas into the carb (from glass jar, not gallon can etc due to potential of fire). Just feed it in slowly while someone starts the car – see if you can keep it running. If it does keep running switch off and repeat the process but using gas taken from the tank. It may be contaminated (water etc) and only picked it up following your 30 miles.Hope it works out for you- I have picked up a lot from your replied to others questions.Mike PPaul, I agree with all your assumptions and conclusions. I also agree with Mike P that you need to closely examine fuel delivery. It is unlikely that both of your carbs clogged up or both float needle valves stuck at the same time. It is most likely that you did get some bad gas or that the gas that was in the tank for the year (?) that you weren’t driving it absorbed water. Alcohol absorbs water readily. I keep a 1 gallon gas tank from an old lawnmower around just for this purpose of troubleshooting bad gas. It is quite possible that you got a slug of water/alcohol up through the filter & pump into both carbs. Now your carb float bowls may be full of water. Try draining them into a small dish. You’ll get this one licked, – it’s not very serious.
gumout, then starter fluid. Don’t touch anything else.
Oh yeah. Also: feed it new gas from not in the tank. If that works (and it probably will), then try the gas from the tank.
edsnova2012-08-04 19:58:29Points,condencer, plugs new. Have you rechecked the point gap? Plug gap? Both can cause hard starting. Point gap can change if set screw not tightened. Starting fluid would make it start but as stated if water present not run . Carbs should be drained and fresh fuel installed.
I would double check point gap and the spark plug gap. Then put some fresh gas in a squirt oil can and have someone try to start car while you squirt into carb. Car should start.
Old time mechanic once said “if you have fuel, air, and spark an engine will run”. They hlave to be in proper amounts and proper time.Agree shoud be a simple fix. Check simple fix first. It will be running soon.once bought a brand new set of points for my TR6 that wore the rubbing block down and changed point gap. Had to keep resetting the points to keep it running, so George could be on to something.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Thanks gang.
Just confirming…everything ignition related is new and set to spec. Checked and double checked.
Gonna rig up a gravity feed for gas, straight to the carbs. Hey, it worked for the Model T!
Stay tuned…..
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Nope.
Fresh gas from a separate fuel can; No difference.
Pulled the fuel pump yesterday. It’s fine.
Seems the carbs get pulled next. Although I STILL have difficulty believing they both crapped out at the same time.
Spent the rest of yesterday on my 65 Plymouth, which was also dead. NOT my summer for old cars. Bad distributor. Put rebuilt distributor in, static timed and it started right up. Still needs some minor tuning, but it’s running again.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Well, hey . . PLYMOUTH at least.
Surprised you didn’t get love with the TD. Keep us posted and good luck.
ePaul I know you checked the coilbut if you have a week spark, from the coil , starting fluid will work to start a motor with a week yellow spark from the coil , I would put a new coil on to her.. DanPaul: I don’t think it is the carbs. Origanaly would get some fire with starting fluid. Now it doesn’t?
I would start over on trouble shooting. If possible changing single part at a time and if no start put original part back before going to the next part. I keep a spare of points , plugs, condencer and a coil in my emergency kit. One of the parts will be bad.Once my grandfather was terying to start his model “A” ford. It wouldn’t start. It had spark but no start. He got local mechanic to look at it. Changed spark plugs points condencer coil would throw a sharp clear blue spark. Pulling hair mechanic asked if he had gas. Grandfather then remembered he had shut off the gas valve so us grand kids couldn’t play with the Model”A”. Good for laughs for many years. Mechanic was some what red faced for not checking for fuel earlier as my grandfather.Paul youwill get it.I was going to say that pulling out ones hair won’t work for Paul but I won’t say it! Oops! I just did.
On a serious note, is it possible that the float needle valve in the carbs are either stuck closed, not opening enough or both? Not likely that BOTH carbs would have a stuck float needle valve but it happens. What about your fuel hose to the carbs? Any sign of a kinked hose/tube? Are you using a “T” fitting or a “Y” fitting? On my Ghia with dual carbs I used a “Y” fitting. Hang in there my friend…you’ll fix it.Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackDan, I swapped in a new coil during previous trouble shooting phase
with no improvement. But I’m gonna try again. All other ignition parts
are new.George, she will fire with starter fluid.
Allen, NICE, kick a man when he’s down! From pump, goes to a t-fitting. All fuel hoses are new and not kinked.
Workin’ on ’em is all part of the hobby, right?
But it would be damn nice to take one for a ride!
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Hey I’m with you on damned nice to take one for a ride. Still pushing along in my 9×9 Easy-up Auto Hobby Shop. Trying to get er done in time for a few hundred miles of run in before Carlisle 2013.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackPaul, Were you able to drain both carb float bowls? I can’t remember if PICT 34’s have a removable drain plug (that is accessible). But you’ve about eliminated everything else. It fires on starter fluid. I’m still thinking that you got a slug of a couple of ounces of water in the carbs and it is still in your float bowls. Since water is heavier than gasoline, it will just sit there perfectly happy in the bowl until it reaches a level that it gets sucked into the engine. Then it’s a no-go until you drain the bowls.
Thanks Roy.
Learning to disassemble (and hopefully reassemble!
) Pict34’s is next on the agenda.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul, I was suggesting removing the main jet cover plug which is part #14 on Rob and Dave’s 34 PICT carb rebuild exploded view. If you could get access to these plugs, removing them should drain the carb float bowls without changing any carb setting. Just unscrew, drain the bowl and then screw them back in. With a little luck you would get water out and once the bowls are MT then you might be back in business. I wanted to send a link but am on vacation and working on a strange (to me) computer so no can do
Thanks for the tip!
I have those diagrams.And I love Rob & Dave’s site: http://www.vw-resource.com/Great resource for Air-cooled VW stuff!Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul: When cranking with starting fluid car fires, trying to start correct? A thought if the idle fuel cutoff solenoid wire is disconnected or shorted out it won’t start, but would run on starter fluid. would act like it was a fuel problem and it would be. Fu8el would be shut off at the carbs.
Thanks George. That is correct.
Something else to check. But with dual carbs, this would probably have to happen at both carbs, right? A short would explain it. But to have both wires disconnect…PMOSSBERG2012-08-15 09:14:26
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Hi gang.
Gotta be the fuel pump. It’s moving some gas, which is why I do see gas at the carbs…more on that later. But apparently not enough.
Here is the latest.
Embarrassing confession…I previously gas flow all the way to the carbs. NOT! I pulled the tops off both Solexes. Both bowls were bone dry.
So gas is NOT making it to the carbs. That’s gotta mean clogged lines somewhere, or bad pump.
Somebody somewhere suggest checking the gas lines with a bike pump, since I do not have a compressor. Genius suggestion. Thanks.
I grabbed on old tire valve from friends at a service station. Bought ten feet of gas line (rememebr, i’m workign this myself, so had to be able to be at the tank to hear “bubbling”, with the hose connected at the rear.
ALL the fuel lines are clear. There was no resistance at all to the air flow from the bike pump. I checked ALL the lines.
The filter is new, the screen in the fuel pump is clear. The pushrod that activates the pump is the correct 4 1/4 inch rod, and is not mushroomed or bent.
So do ya’ll agree. While the fuel pump is creating some action, it’s not enough?
Besides, it’s a cheap pull and replace. CIP1 has stock pumps for $15.00.
Thoughts?
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul,
Before replacing the fuel pump, check the height of the shaft above the top of the pump adapter. If it’s too short you may have to sand down the block a little bit to let the pump sit down more. That’s how the fuel pump pressure is adjusted. Either add gaskets to reduce pressure or shorten the block just a tad to increase the pressure.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack
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