vw tins

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  • #233992
    greg press
    Participant

    @greg-press

    I’ve looked at alot of vw engines pictures the bottom tin is often missing.Mine doesn’t have it.Should i be worried about this.Any imput woud be appreciated. 

    FrankieD2012-02-24 10:47:47

    #249280
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Better to have. You want to keep exhaust heat from recycling through your carbs.

    #249281
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    Do you mean the two piece tin that goes between the engine case and the heater boxes?  If so, I think that this one causes the fan forced cooling air to wrap around the bottom of the cylinders and the push rod tubes and prevents hot spots on the bottom of them as well as protecting the push rod tubes.  Best advice seems to be: have all the tin in place.   

    #249282
    greg press
    Participant

    @greg-press

    If i need them where do i find them .Saw some on e bay awhile back. Jc whitney? does one size fit all? My engine is supposed to be 1600cc.  

    #249283
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    I think your best bet is to go to some shop that has a lot of old VW junk engines in the back yard. 

    #249284
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    I’ll go along with replacing the tin that was taken out of my London Roadster last summer.  That was an ill-advised move.  But I’m having trouble believing that thin metal plates will block heat significantly, knowing how uninsulated metal can transfer heat so easily.  I hear the reasoning, but I am still skeptical.

    #249285
    Marc Lipsius
    Participant

    @mrlmd

    It has to do with separating the airflow from the hot areas at the bottom of the engine and the cooler air coming into the fan intake.

    #249286
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Guys, don’t debate this. The question was settled by VW-knuckleheads generations ago. Install all your stock tins. They work.

    Find them on the Samba. Last I checked there were 81 pages of classified ads for “tins.” What you need is likely in there.

    #249287
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    I’m working with my mechanic who is rebuilding my engine and he will be custom fabricating some metal sheeting to go between the muffler and the engine to keep heat out. 

    #249288
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    “Cool!” Approve  Greg, I realize that you live in NY and probably wonder why this is important.  I lived there (NY) long enough to know that the asphalt roads get super hot in the summer and that reflects right up onto the engine.  Cheap insurance.   

    #249289
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    “Quote: It has to do with separating the airflow from the hot areas at the bottom of the engine and the cooler air coming into the fan intake.”

     

    I wish I had cooler air in the Phoenix summer!  115F might not be cool enough to run the VW engine in July or August.  That sounds like the perfect excuse to head to the pine country or maybe San Diego.  But I’d have to cross a big desert to get to San Diggy.  With no A/C, that would be a brutal journey.
    #249290
    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    Quoting Royal in an earlier post:

    Do you mean the two piece tin that goes between the engine case and the heater boxes?  If so, I think that this one causes the fan forced cooling air to wrap around the bottom of the cylinders and the push rod tubes and prevents hot spots on the bottom of them as well as protecting the push rod tubes.  Best advice seems to be: have all the tin in place.

     

    That is exactly what the bottom tin that runs just under the pushrod tubes is for. It truly does prevent those HOT spots from developing on the underside of the cylinders and the pushrod tubes. Back when the Doghouse cooler came out, VW spent a million plus dollars studying the airflow through the fan and around the engine and made a ton of improvements. All those seemingly useless pieces are really there for a reason. Cooling being the main one.

    newkitman2012-02-23 13:10:49

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #249291
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    I picked up a dog house housing for my current rebuild.  I feel it is much better than the old one that was on there.

    #249292
    Royal
    Participant

    @royal

    MGLR didn’t you already have doghouse cooling?  (I am having some difficulty finding old posts due to my advancing years.)  If you did not, then you need to get a larger fan and an offset bracket for the oil cooler. 

    #249293
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    The cooling shroud on the car when I bought it was a cheap, no frills version that we don’t think did a good job of distrbuting air.  I bought the dog house because it has the internal fins (blades?) to direct air better.  I’ll ask about the fan for it tonight when I go home.

     

    I’m having an additional oil cooler installed to aid in handing our intense summer heat.  It is coming together nicely, but I didn’t have my camera with me last night before the sun went down. Metal polished up, some chrome fittings, a paint job on the cooling housing and some fins.  Should be quite a showpiece when it’s all done.
    #249294
    greg press
    Participant

    @greg-press

    Today i took a picture of my engine to my vw man thats all  he does  rebuild engines.His main interest is volkswagon and porchse .He said to bring the car to him in the spring and he will check it out to see what it needs . Hard to tell from picture ,but it looks like alot of modificatons have been so mavbe it doesnt need bottom tin.

     

     

      think spring  
    #249295
    Marc Lipsius
    Participant

    @mrlmd

    Those extra added-on external oil coolers don’t really accomplish anything, unless you have a fan blowing a significant amount of air over them. If it’s just sitting somewhere under a fender or in the engine compartment it probably won’t do anything other than slightly increasing your oil capacity.
    The VW mechanic who rebuilt my engine removed the finned cooler that the PO had put on my car and installed a doghouse fan shroud with the improved VW oil cooler in it and that’s all you need. It gets in the mid 90’s where I live also and that setup works fine, and replace the tin.

    #249296
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    Right. Aftermarket, auxiliary oil coolers are for big builds only. And you better be an engineer, and lucky, if you want the thing to run reliably for more than a few 10s of Ks. 

    #249297
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    Are you saying I won’t get much lif out of my new bigger engine with the added oil cooler? Will it degrade or harm the engine in any way?
    MGLondonRoadste2012-02-24 10:25:19

    #249298
    Marc Lipsius
    Participant

    @mrlmd

    It won’t add a thing to cooling except making you feel like you did something or it will increase you oil capacity slightly, like I said. 

    #249299
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    Edsnova post sound like a warning. I ‘d like to know more.

    #249300
    edward ericson
    Participant

    @edsnova

    You’re not going big enough to make yours a grenade. The guys going way over 2 liters are pushing things too far, imho, which is really h, btw. A lot of them would shout me down for saying it.

    1776, 1835, 1915 isn’t crazy big and should do fine in these cars, if they’re built carefully and not driven in competition. Stock doghouse cooler should work too.

    You go much bigger and you’re outside the design basis of the stock cooling system, is all I’m saying. Once there, you need to be hyper-vigilant regarding all tolerances, materials, etc. etc. For me, the fun would drain out of it pretty fast.

    I’d rather have a car I can drive all day at 70 mph for 10 years and never be able to do 90 than a car that can go 120 for 2 minutes and then never go 70 (or any other speed) again.

    #249301
    Mark
    Participant

    @mglondonroadste

    My cylinders got bored bigger, but not up to 92, so it will be closer to 1776 than 1835 I suppose. The extra cooler is to try compensating for the extreme heat we get in the summer. But without A/C, I most likely won’t be driving it too much anyway. Fall, winter and spring are my times to enjoy top down fun.

    #249302
    newkitman
    Participant

    @newkitman

    When I rebuild VW engines I always go up to 87mm pistons. And I let interested parties know that the mod is a straight “bolt on” mod and that drives the engine up to 1641cc giving it a little more kick from the red light. And you’re not changing the engine so much that the oil temps are significantly different. AND… the price for a 1600cc rebuild kit and a 1641cc rebuild kit is the same. Might as well go just a tab bigger for the price. 

    Allen Caron
    VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
    "If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

    #249303
    Marc Lipsius
    Participant

    @mrlmd

    The doghouse shroud should also have the newer offset oil cooler with it to work that much more effectively. It’s not only the shroud that should be replaced, it’s the newer version of the oil cooler also.
    mrlmd2012-02-24 20:17:01

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