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Well, it’s almost time to get going on my winter project. As some of you know, I rebuilt a standard sp 1500 T1 engine last winter and upped it to 1600. So, it is now a 1600cc 1970 sp engine. No doghouse. Runs great. No problems. I had so much fun doing it, I am considering building a spare engine this winter and have some questions.
I am planning on building as large as I can (cc) without cutting the heads since I can not find anyone in the area that can/will do the flycuts. I guess that means <1776cc. Probably 1641?Is there a preferable block/case among the dp doghouse style T1?I have a lead on a $200 complete 1972 engine. Comments? +/-I plan on porting/polishing and doing the entire job myself with only semi-normal mechanics tools. How much can be obtained by simply making a T1 DP 1600 breath better?Cost is a concern.I have a flimsy lead on my choice of 2 dual carb manifolds with carbs ($150). Haven’t seen them yet. Is there a better rig among dual setups? Carb advice? (<1776cc) Or is there an advantage to putting a progressive single over the complexity of duals. (Tuning and adjusting dual carbs does not scare me. I've done it a lot, albeit with SU's and Zeniths.)What is the total distance (width) of your dual carb setup? It would be really tight and am not interested in enlarging the engine cover. My cover inside measurement is 31″. Can I squeeze duals in there?I, obviously with my limited budget am not interested in racing or going to the track. Would like to build a faster than normal reliable street engine. I really am doing this because it’s fun, not necessary.I will not be splitting the case if the end play on the crank is within specs and I probably will not buy the engine unless it is. Knowing me, If I split the case, I will want to go whole hog and replace everything but budget will not allow that.Thanks.Roy…the biggest you can go WITHOUT machining the heads and case is 87mm(1641). You could go to 88mm (1698) but the cylinder fins and walls are too thin for my liking. They are available but for what you are planning a 1641 is great. Gives you a little extra umph off the line and is still economical and powerful. That’s what I’m putting in Moneypenny. The kit for a 1641 is only about $40 more at mid america.
As for which case, I’d go with the later dual relief case. The case is a little beefier and ported better for oil flow. My .02 cents worth anyway.Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shackthere is a formula for how many cubic feet per minute of carb you will need but I can’t remember it. displacement by rpms then divide by some number
Try this…
http://www.holley.com/applications/CarburetorSelector/CarbSelection.asp
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Wow. I tried that selector for a 2.2 Subie and crapped out every time. Just doesn’t have anything. But I know a guy in Canada put a Subie in his Speedster with a progressive Holley/Weber and it does great–30+ mpg, strong acceleration and smooth startup.
OK, tried it again asking for a 100 c.i. engine & it’s no good for that either.
Roy, I’m going way out on a limb here and advising you: go with two little one-bbls if they’ll fit. Don’t mess with Webers & stuff on a little engine like that. Instead, buy a small carb kit with manifolds and a set of small ratio rockers. Spend money on the rocker arm kit & get strong stuff.
If the duals won’t fit then the progressive Holley/weber from an old Ford Pinto goes nice. They sell that kit too at Cip1 and other outlets. Should bump you up a few horses.
Thanks Ed, that is what I am hoping for.
What I really need is for some of you guys with dual carb setups would go and measure the max width of your rig. As I said, I have 31″ inside my engine cover. If you think that your rig may fit, please tell me what rig you have. Thanks.Roy,
I should be able to get you a measurement in the next day or do – car covered for the winter and all – I have twin Kadrons w/ cone style air cleaners. Hopefully you can make something fit.Hi Roy,
I think dual carbs are going to be a tight fit inside a 31″ engine cover.
My Duchess has 36″ inside her engine cover.
I’m running two Solex PICT34s, which are single barrel carbs, with round 5 7/8″ round Kadron air filters.
The width to the outer most edges of the carbs themselves is almost 33 inches.
The air cleaners are slightly offset. But the outside measurement is still 34 inches.
Photo courtesy of famed journalist Ed Ericson
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Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul, Thanks.
That is exactly what I needed. It doesn’t look like your setup wastes any space so I doubt that Dale’s is any more compact. But will wait for his measurements before deciding on another winter project. I may end up moving the spare from under the hood to the engine cover a la MGTD. It would give me more storage space, but would mean that that I give up my fake continental tire cover and my luggage rack. Decisions, decisions. Just got some bad news on Julies car and ran out of money, so no VW muscle car engine breast enlargement (big jugs) project this winter.“VW breast enlargement”
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
I just got a PM from Schu and it looks like his dual carb rig is about as space efficient (width wise) as could possibly be. Schu’s air cleaners are smaller and more upright than Paul’s. Unfortunately it appears that his rig is about 33″ to the outside of the carbs just like Paul’s. Bummer! From reading, I understand that it would (would have) make a big difference on my single port 1600. No can do. I post this in case anybody else is considering the conversion. (My car is a Daytona MiGi) Maybe, I’ll just mount my spare wire wheel on the rear this winter. I’m a bit undecided to do that since, I really have a nice albeit “fake” Continental cover and a nice aftermarket (not really a TD) luggage rack which would have to go.
If it’s no good you could always put it back, Roy.
Carb-wise, would one of those progressive Holley-Weber 2 bbl jobbies fit? And does anyone know if they offer up any appreciable performance boost? I believe Syl Mathis’s beautiful white speedster has that carb setup and I don’t hear him complaining.
Weber makes a bug scatt set up for 1600 VW ,,,check on line about $200.00 carb. only ..32/36 progressive I have one on my 1.4 chevette with a 1.6 intake and it works good, starts easy, and runs great I’m not sure what a manifold costs for a VW. Dan R
Dan, I think that you may have forgotten that I have a single port 1600 engine. It is in fantastic shape, but the single port design limits the carb choices. I have relied heavily on my readings in the Samba, and all over the net as well as Aircooled’s treatise ( http://www.aircooled.net/vw-carburetor-options-selection-101/ ). If I could find a semi-scientific site that compares before and after center mount carb conversions on a single port, I would be very interested. If you or anyone know of or has any experience in these, please send me the link. ….otherwise, no joy for Roy this winter as I will be left with more mundane projects like moving my spare tire to the rear.
So, Santa is bringing me Fisher’s “How to Hot Rod VW Engines” so I have to wait until Christmas. In the meantime, I found this link which answers many questions about carburetor and manifold upgrades/downgrades/dos/don’ts etc: Enjoy
Well, I haven’t given up yet, but need help. Turns out that Fisher in his book “How to Hotrod a Volkswagen Engine” did extensive testing on single port engines and various carburetor setups. The Holley Bugspray wins. For single port engines, he shows (lots of dynamometer test results are shown) that it is better than duals. BUT, I have been unable to find one. I would need a Holley Bugspray Model 2110 series 6244, 200CFM version (the series 6244 is 200CFM, others are 300CFM and are too big). If any of you has one or knows where I can get one, please let me know. I will also need the isolated tube manifold (not a plenum type) but they are available so that is really not the main problem. Thanks for the help.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, I ended up finding and getting 2 Bugspray #6244 carbs and 2 plenum type single port manifolds. Bought one carb and manifold, the guy said “here take the other one also – I don’t want it”. Ordered a Bugspray book and carburetor rebuild kit and also a 3rd manifold (but this one is an isolated tube type). Now to have fun getting stinky with carburetor cleaner. Next challenge is to find an air filter that will fit under my engine cover. Hopefully I’ll be able to “take” Patina Bill at the autocross this year.Royal (Roy) HendrixYou’re on, Roy !
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Sounds like you’ll have me beat for sure, Roy. Hold on to them bugsprayers. I hear the kids dig ’em.
Help!!
I took my old Solex and manifold off. Have the dual carb manifold in place and the Holley Bugspray sitting on top. BUT: How do I get an air filter in there? The old air cleaner sat atop the Solex which was about 1/2″ shorter when mounted on the manifold. 2″ OD inlet neck vs 2-5/8″ on the Bugspray. I only have about 2″ max head height above the top of the carb, which might be enough, but the inllet to the air cleaner would have to be so far off center that it was on the edge of the cleaner. There is a 1/2″ neck on the carb for attaching a clamp on (hose clamp) air cleaner.I really think that I need to make a rather quick 90 degree turn and possibly mount the air cleaner remotely. I think that I remember such a rig being used on something that I had my head under during my previous 60 years under the hood. But, can’t remember what it was. I am looking for some sort of pipe with a 2-5/8″ neck +/- that takes up minimal room and would adapt a hose. Anybody remember such a rig??I won’t be able to keep up with Bill at the Carlisle autocross unless I get some help here. Else, back to the Solex and concede to Bill. Bummer, – I’ve got a lot of time and a bit of money invested in this “improvement”.The part you want looks like the stock piece from a mid 1970s VW van–but I don’t think the inlet diameter on that is big enough.
Mine’s just a flex pipe, Roy. Works pretty good & is cheap. Not pretty though.
Well, a combination of the weather and lower back problems, caused a several week delay in my exploratory “does a dual throated (two barrel) Bugspray make a significant difference” question on a single ported TD. I hope to get to it this week. I sure don’t have any extra room inside my engine cover:
You’re not running an air cleaner or have you rigged remote duct work?
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"
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