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Thinking of installing the set of Karmann Ghia Retractable seat belts on Moneypenny. I have a bench seat back but bucket seat cushions. I would install the retractor bolted to the floor pan, the triangular pivot for holding the belt over the shoulder on the inside of pillar just above the door hinge and the buckle portion secured to the original tunnel bolt location. Think it’ll work? What about a universal belt?
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackSuspect shoulder belt may be uncomfortable unless your left shoulder is below level of bench back seat. In most modern vehicles the shoulder connection is adjustable in vertical plane to accommodate height of drivers. Maybe a 5 point harness with straps going over both shoulders parallel to one another will provide the additional safety you are looking for
David B Dixon
Port Perry ON CA
SabineI am installing no retractable shoulder belts in my car. I am bolting them to the tunnel behind the seat, the tunnel at the side of the seat, and the frame at the side — the shoulder portions are in the center and the buckles will be at the sides of the car. The sides are held in place with plastic sleeves. This keeps the belts out of the doors. It should also be comfortable because my seats are much taller than average so the seat top is above my shoulder. I would not suggest bolting to fiberglass.
Allen,
Without something that holds the shoulder belt up higher than the level of your shoulder when seated, I would not recommend it. You risk breaking a collar bone or that shoulder belt pushing you down and out under the lap belt (aka submarining) in a hard collision. Additionally, you need something that keeps that shoulder belt correctly positioned on your shoulder, instead of up against your neck or off the shoulder. You have neither with the typical bench seat back.
That’s one of the reasons I decided to buy high-back PRP seats that have shoulder belt slots built-in. Even then, I’m going to run only lap belts until/if I can get a rollbar with either a harness bar or harness attaching points built and installed.
In a collision, the floor mounted shoulder belt would push you down into the seat hard enough to cause serious injury. The installation instructions for the retractable 4 point harnesses specifically warn against floor mounting, and no more than 45° below the top of your shoulder or belt slots. KentT2016-02-09 17:03:54
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...According to the GA Dept of Transportation, Moneypenny doesn’t need shoulder restraints. Just was thinking of using them in case but it doesn’t sound like it’d be such a hot idea. I’ll stick with my lap belts. Thanks for the input.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackAllen…
You wrote that you’d be bolting the shoulder belt “… inside of pillar just above the door hinge….”
If that means you’d be attaching it to fiberglass, you’d probably be wasting your time. In the event of an accident, the forces would rip that bolt right out of the fiberglass, even with a giant fender washer behind it.
I’ve read that even bolting through the stamped steel of a VW floor pan does not provide enough strength.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Thanks for everyone’s input.
I too, have been thinking of ways to add shoulder straps. Never could come up with a workable solution.
But after reading through all this, I’ve changed my mind. I’m keeping the lap belts like they are.
To be morbidly honest, I’m not sure if shoulder straps would be of any added safety in event of a wreck. Sort of like helmets for motorcycle riders; good for some situations, useless in others…Amor Conquista Todo
I rode bikes in FL and MO for many years, and IMHO anyone who would ride a motorcycle without a helmet should have his head examined. I can’t think of any motorcycle accident in which I would prefer my head to be unprotected. If you’re in a motorcycle accident, by definition you are down, and if you are down, at some point your head will strike something. I don’t care what that something is, or how fast or slow I am going. No matter what, I would rather have the helmet strike that something than my unprotected head, thank you very much.johnsimion2016-02-10 12:07:26
I installed a set of three point belts from a vw van I picked up at a vw swap meet. I was able to mount the retractor inside the top of the wheelwell and bolt it directly to a frame member. The belt then goes up into the rear cockpit through a narrow slot and passes through a metal retainer bolted to the upper outside corner of the seat back. This makes everything as close to a modern three point system as I could get. I can’ t send a picture now because I am away for a few weeks. The retractor mechanism is a bit exposed to the weather but in my dry climate that is not a problem. It works well but I don’t plan to do a crash test.Kall2016-02-10 12:10:10
Not trying to be morbid, just realistic.
I see issues with Kall’s set up.“The belt goes up into the rear cockpit through a narrow slot….”With the forces involved in a real world accident, that “narrow slot” in the fiberglass is going to act like a knife, weakening (and potentially cutting through) the seatbelt web.
“…and passes through a metal retainer bolted to the upper outside corner of the seat back.”I see an even bigger issue here. The retainer is likely bolted to plywood inside the seat back. That is definitely going to tear loose. And when that happens, you are going to be in the situation that Kent described above. There will be nothing keeping the shoulder belt where it needs to be.PMOSSBERG2016-02-10 14:14:11
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
While on the subject of belts, these are the type of mounting reinforcements recommended, instead of the commonly provided big fender washers, if you are bolting belts to sheet metal, like the bottom of a VW floorplan. These spread the force over a large enough area that they won’t pull through the sheet metal.
If you are bolting into the thicker metal of the center tunnel or the shaped rear body mounting flange, a big fender washer MAY suffice….
Seatbelt AnchorKentT2016-02-10 16:46:24
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...I decided to just stay with the lap belts. I’ll bolt the belt to the original chassis/pan locations. Besides, my lap belts have the MG logo on the buckle.
newkitman2016-02-10 15:52:06
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackKent – that link did not resolve properly. Would you check it?.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
PMOSSBERG wrote:Kent – that link did not resolve properly. Would you check it?.Sorry! I edited it to correct it with a direct link to Amazon – then tested it.
The earlier link had gone through Google search so Summit Racing. These are available from a variety of places, including eBay.
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...The only proper way to do a shoulder strap…
Just saying…
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"billnparts wrote:The only proper way to do a shoulder strap…Just saying…
Yep. A horizontal harness bar. I’ve talked to a local cage fabricator about making me a single hoop rollbar with a harness bar and two diagonal rear braces down to the frame horns. The harness bar will have to be a horizontal hoop, to clear the back of the seats.
I use a pair of 4-point Crow harnesses on my Yamaha Rhino that I use around the property, mounted to a harness bar. They work well for serious trail riding, but are so restrictive I don’t use them around the house most of the time. I may want to try some of the new retracting Corbeau 4-points in the TDr… They reportedly let you move around more. They could mount to a mounting point on the diagonal braces – if those braces are close centered behind the seats, but they are not. Haven’t made it to that point yet!
KentT2016-02-10 20:07:09Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Yes, and no car seats for kids.
The good outweighs the bad but I have sympathy for parents needing to go through all the trouble of dealing with those things. Just saw a repeat of a news story I had seen before about little kids wearing winter coats causing a possibility to slip out because of the changes in tightness.Wish it never happened but my first car accident, first year with a drivers license too, a woman ran into the station wagon (family car) and her young boy was in the front seat of their small car without a seat belt and his face hit the dash. Nothing an arm could have stopped from happening even though it was only about a 20 MPH hit.I’m never without a seat belt.
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