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Hi Guy,
I assume this information is out there somewhere but has anyone collated the production numbers for all the manufacturers combined. These things have now been around a great many years in their various forms, eg, factory built, kits etc so how many potential members for this forum are there out there? A great many of the kit makers came and went pretty quickly, never mind the factory built ones, but did they leave any records as to build numbers etc.
Anxious minds need to know!
John the Brit
I’ve searched.
Never found anything. 🙁Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul,
I wonderi if all our members sent in their make and body numbers, if we could get any idea of production numbers?BillBad Bill
Honest? I doubt it Bill.
We’re far from critical mass as far as our numbers go.
I’m not sure we can even determine how the various manufacturers numbered their cars. Did they start at number 1? Or 1001? Did they restart the count every year? How did the many mergers and takeovers affect serial numbers?
Just my two cents, probably worth one with inflation. 😉
PMOSSBERG2015-07-19 23:29:44
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
So I met 2 people who worked at British Coach Works back in the day. One was Jack Fusseneger, the founder’s son and I think a co-founder. He said “less than 700” BCWs were made, 1980-86. Production stopped when chevettes were discontinued; many of the cars went overseas, mostly to Japan, he said.
You learned more than I did Ed!
I met Gary Rutherford a few times. Gary founded Classic Roadsters Ltd., sold it to the sharks in Florida because he wanted to focus on his boat business. Then bought it back after they tried to kill it. He never mentioned any real production numbers.PMOSSBERG2015-07-20 09:48:03
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
I used to do a spreadsheet for my Southeast Karmann Ghia
club. I recorded each by Year, VIN, Transaxle Type (autostick or manual), Coupe or Convertible, Interior color, Exterior color, Owner’s Name and State. But only posted Year of Manufacture, Owner Last Name, State, Color, Transaxle Type and Coupe or Convertible.As I am now retired I could make up a spreadsheet sorted by manufacturer (for club members only)who would want to email me their data. This would at least give us a snapshot of current data. Could be a bit tricky as the FiberFab and CMC kits were Chevy Chevette, Ford Pinto and VW based kits. Don’t know about the other kit manufacturers. I’ll let y’all mull it over and then see where it all falls out.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackIt’d be fun to find out. My Japanese skills are nonexistent, tho, so not sure how to search.
I have that already Allen. 😉
This will probably format poorly, but here is a summary from the registry:Name (Screen name) Year Manufacturer
W. Lee Truman (WLeeTruman)
Wayne Wells (blu2u)
John Black (britinaAz) 1968 VW pan
Will Burge (Washington Will) 1983
Hubert Atkinson (BaytownTD) 1984
Volkmar Koehler (Riley) 1984
Mike (Smithgall) 1980 Allison
Tom Colello (Gunfighter) 1981 Allison
Richard Wobby (Richard Wobby) 1979 Allison Daytona
Gordon Waples (Allison GW) 1980 Allison Daytona
Dick Herman (DickH) BCW
Jim Edmonds (jfbworld) 1969 VW pan BCW
Jack Breza (HappyJack) 1970 VW BCW
Greg Schauber (clkdoc) 1982 BCW
Neil Flaherty (Profile57) 1985 (?) BCW
Chuck & Nadine Smith (CSmith) 1986 BCW
Larry Murphy (LarryMurphy) 1998 BCW
Edward Ericson (edsnova) 1982 on 1969 VW BCW
Bob Bowen (rsbowen) 1985 BCW # 324
Jerry Van Avery (Van Avery) 1986 BCW #140
Ed and Harriet Turner (oldroadie) 1985 (?) BCW #222 Schweppes Special Edition
Ric Garwood (ricrx7) 1986 s British Coach Work
Douglas Small (rcsign) 1982 Classic Coach
Dean Woodward (Dean in Denver) Classic Motor Carriages
George Bono (GeorgeB) 1988 Classic Motor Carriages (CMC) (maybe)
Mike Deren (MikeD ) 1982 Classic Roadster
Perry Christenberry (Fairweather) Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
John Eggett (Court Wizard) Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Stephen Chuck (scchuck) 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Steve Crites (Ringo) 1984 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Rich Gearheart (ArGee) 1986 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Bob Gielow & Paula Sullivan (Bob & Paula) 1986 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Ray & Cathy Conn (ray10) 1988 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Rick Mullins (Rockyx) 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (Custom Classic Duchess)
Rick Cooper (Secretagentcat) Classic Roadsters Ltd Grand Duchess
Chuck Niedzialkowski (Chuckonwhidbey) 1980???s VW Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Drew Robinson (Flekst) 1980 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Dick Lemons (Sopgravy) 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Jeff Thornton (Jeffthornton) 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Paul Mossberg (PMossberg) 1982 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Curt Porter (Cookdog) 1985 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Dave Roy (davearoy) 1985 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Jerry Schmidt (Flightshack42) 1988 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Dave Borch (Dave B) 1993 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess
Flip Galloway (Flipmgtd) CMC
John Jones (jjones) CMC
Dale Schumacher (schu) CMC
Mel Zeiger (luvmytd) 1985 CMC
Gabor Kesseru (gkesseru) 1987 CMC
Joe Monesmith (JoeMoe65) 1987 CMC
Geoff Berdick (Geoff104) 1989 CMC
Rick Gawlowski (Doozer449) 1989 CMC
Montie Henderson (Montie) 1989 CMC
Johnny Baxter (JohnnyB) 1990 CMC
John McDermon (Hawk521) 2009 CMC
James Cochran (JasCochran) 1985 May CMC Fiberfab
Bill Stuck (billsflorida) 1986? CMC/Fiberfab
Carlene Dornbush (Purplemyth) Daytona MIGI
Daniel Fore (Junkman) Daytona MiGi
Robert Smith (Smitty) Daytona MiGi
Will Burge (Washington Will) 1969 VW Daytona Migi
Kelven R. Mercer (Justduky) 1975 Daytona Migi
Ron Sparks (Ron S) 1978 Daytona Migi
Susan McCain (Susan) 1979 Daytona Migi
Ed Ellingson (EdEngineer) 1982 Daytona MiGI
Roy Hendrix (Royal) 1983 Daytona MiGi
Russell Boulanger (RussLB) 1984 Daytona Migi
Scott Werseen (sw1gr8guy) 1986 Daytona MIGI
Charlie Stevens (kschas) Design Classics Inc.
Tom Swartzwelder (tomscs) 1984 Fiberfab (Dulcinea)
Sam Yerardi (samyer) Fibefab
Phil MacGregor (Sailor) 1989 Fiber Fab
Brian Key (Mpavblue) Fiber Fab MiGi
Paul Villeneuve (Villeneuve) 1980 Fiber Fab on a 1969 Volkswagen
Chief (Chief) Fiberfab
Jon DuBurg (Jond209) Fiberfab
Steve French (Steve French) Fiberfab
Steve French (Steve French) Fiberfab
Bill Has (crash55) FiberFab
Richard Johnson (rrffjj) Fiberfab
Harry Lewis (Spike Lewis) FiberFab
Bill Oakes (billoakes) Fiberfab
Craig K. Robinson (crobinson) Fiberfab
Ricky Rodriguez (mymgtd) Fiberfab
Kent Thomas (KentT) Fiberfab
Mark Welch (MGLondonRoadste) Fiberfab
Mark D. Williams (Shaky57) Fiberfab
David York (mikeeva) Fiberfab
Jim Saunders (Jsaunders) 1971 Fiberfab
Tom Downs (Tdowns) 1980 Fiberfab
Bill Hursh (BillHursh) 1980???s Fiberfab
Shane Jones (ShaneJ) 1980’s FiberFab
Don Loveless (DonsMG) 1980’s FiberFab
Arthur Provenz (ArtsMGTD) 1980 Fiberfab
Paul Allain (pga64) 1981 Fiberfab
Doug Berry (dberry) 1981 Fiberfab
Melvin Collins (fairwindsnc) 1982 Fiberfab
Mike Poinsett (Huskykicker) 1982 Fiberfab
Stan Slatkin (Widetrack) 1982 Fiberfab
Allen Caron (newkitman) 1983 Fiberfab
Phil Kanwischer (Phil) 1983 Fiberfab
Bob Hughes(LRH) 1984 Fiberfab
Kevin Hux (RedMGTD) Car Name: Maggie 1984 FiberFab
Doug Schmidt (dougsgarage) 1984 Fiberfab
Walter A. Weiss (Colorado) 1985 Fiberfab
Gene Jenkins (jenkinen) 1986 Fiberfab
Marc Lipsius (mrlmd) 1987 Fiberfab
Rob Baker (RobBaker) 1988 Fiberfab
Rich Bellefeuille (RichBelfay) 1988 Fiberfab
Lane Farka (Bodge Garage) 1988 Fiberfab
Rob Haettich (mrhydrant) 1988 FiberFab
Bailey Harris (bailey) 1988 FiberFab
Bill Ascheman (billnparts) 1989 Fiberfab
Leon Arbeene Jr (Winnipaw) 1990 Fiberfab
Ray Conn (ray10) 1991 Fiberfab
Mike Neben (capnmike) Fiberfab (?)
Bob Boese (Bob) 1989 Fiberfab (?)
John Simion (johnsimion) 1983 FiberFab (assembled in 1999)
Paul Burkheimer (Burkheimer) 1994 FiberFab (purchased from Daytona Automotive)
Rich Kallenberger (Kall) 1985ish Fiberfab (serial number FM 1775)
Bill Gayler (bgayler) 1979 Fiberfab Daytona Migi
Jack Breza (HappyJack) 1980 FiberFab II
Bill Bastian & Deborah Ellis (RosebudandBill) 1961 VW Fiberfab MiGi
Ed Service (Eddy) 1979 Fiberfab MiGi
Chuck Schmit (chuckles) 1985? FiberFab MiGi
Al Greig (Al Greig) 1986 FiberFab MiGi
Dennis Brock (dbrock) 1979 on 1965 VW Fiberfab MiGI
Mark Konrad (MarkK) 1981 Fiberfab Migi II
Vicenç Feliú (Sabreur76) 1983 Fiberfab MiGi II
Steve Struchen (mustang_evets) 1981 FiberFab MiGi II serial #812074-5
Sam Reynolds (sreynolds) FiberFab VIN 929576 87
Lou Ostendorff (louosten) 1986 Fiberfab/CMC
Roland C Smullen (Rollie) 1980 FiberFab/MiGi
Scott Chynoweth (1oldbuzz) 1983 FiberFab/Mmigi (to be titled as 1953 MG)
Ron Sturdy (1940gearhead) 1984 Lafer MP
Edward Davidson (MG wanna B) London Roadster
Mark Welch(MGLondonRoadste) London Roadster
Mike Palmer (MikeP) 1981 London Roadster
Karen McCarron (KarenMc) 1983 London Roadster
Gloria McFarland (cucumber1949) 1983 London Roadster
Larry Murphy (Larry Murphy) 1983 London Roadster
Chip (Chip) 1985 London Roadster
Greg Press (greg press) 1985 London Roadster
John Barry (jebarry) 1986 London Roadster
Marilou Carandang (Maricar19) 1986 London Roadster
Dick Shear (gbidick) 1986 London Roadster
John Richardson (Prisoner#6) 1978 manufacturer unknown (serial number 929918-78)
Dan Grant (dggrant) Might be FiberFab
Donna Leer (Donna) Migi
Stan Slatkin (Widetrack) Migi
Dan Rosa (DanR) 1986 MiGi
Bob Cornwall (MIGINova) 1982 Migi Daytona
Bill Dillon (Willgwv) 1988 MIGIII
Chris Hamlin (CHC325) Modern Classic
Ricardo Olimon (Calafer) 1980 MP Lafer
Bill Gould (TexAg71) 1981 MP Lafer TI
Randall Eshpeter (BeBop) Rich Industries
Douglas Willis (STG-inc.) 1988 May Uknown
Dennis Brock (Dbrock) Unknown
Paul Bureau (Paul6221) 1969 VW Unknown
Billy McJunkins (billymcj) 1980 unknown
Bruce Clifford (bcliff) Victor Motor Company MG-TF
PMOSSBERG2015-07-20 18:00:51
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Thanks Paul. Let me play with it some tomorrow and see what shakes out. I’ll start with the Duchess.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackWhen I purchased my London roadster in July .That winter I became interest in production numbers . I discovered a form you could fill out through the DMV that would tell how many were in NYS . I sent it in plus 10 bucks . About a month later I received a letter that said there were 3 in NYS . It also indicated if it wasn’t registered it didn’t exist. I also contacted the Inkster Michigan (where it was made) Historical Society . They referred me to the Ford Museum in Detroit. Happened to be in the area . Filled out a form , never heard from them . Once I was in a car shop talking to this mechanic and he told me a friend of his used to work for London Roadster inc. Who knows ?
Who Knew and What have I gotten myself into now?
http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/about/
PMOSSBERG2015-07-20 22:12:55
It’s about Americans who are nostalgic about Japanese cars (the pictures are all Japanese cars and all the events are in America). Maybe I’m dense, but I don’t “get” the connection to this thread.
Impressive list of owner cars! Although terribly lacking info for S/N or VIN. heh-heh 🙂
Seeing the following is at least something… to me.Rich Kallenberger (Kall) 1985ish Fiberfab (serial number FM 1775)Mine being FM1307 titled August 1984 sure doesn’t help much either, and I can’t imagine 468 kits being made from one year to the next. Not that I have any clue what the actual numbers would be, I just thought maybe a hundred or two per year might be more realistic. But hey, what do I know?! Uh… nothing, yep. Not enough for any kind of guesstimation.I hope people will find this and provide their VIN or S/N too, if they can.The list above is excerpted from the info in the registry (link in my signature).
When we created the registry, we did not ask for serial numbers. In part because no one has ever been able to determine exactly what they mean. There is no standard. There seem to be no public records for the various manufacturers that would enable us to interpret their serial numbers.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
When I get back to the house I’ll post the explanation of the Fiberfab kit serial numbers that the owner explained to me. Not that it’ll be the same for other kits but may help members with Fiberfab kits.
newkitman2015-07-21 11:21:29Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackThe counts:
Unknown ??? 11
Allison – 4
BCW – 12
Classic Coach – 1
CMC – 12 (plus 1 maybe)
CMC/FiberFab – 3
Classic Roadster – 1 (I suspect this is another Classic Roadsters Ltd.)
Classic Roadsters Ltd. – 18
Daytona MiGi – 11
Design Classics Inc. – 1
FiberFab – 50 (plus 3 possible)
FiberFab II – 1
FIberFab MiGi – 7
FiberFab MiGi II – 3
Lafer MP – 3
London Roadster – 11
MiGi – 3
MiGi Daytona – 1
MiGi II – 1
Modern Classic – 1
Rich Industries – 1
Victor Motor Company (TF) – 1
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
And some commentary…
CMC is Classic Motor Carriages, based mostly in Fort Lauderdale. They created the famous (or infamous?) Gazelle. Then basically destroyed the TD replicas and a good part of our hobby.The list above is based on how our owners identified their cars.Mostly because of CMC trying to suck the life out of this market, the lines are a bit blurry between CMC and Fiberfab.I believe the MiGi and Migi II entries are likely part of the Fiberfab line.BUT…There is also the Daytona MiGi. So I am not sure about that.I’m also not sure if there was a relationship between Daytona and Fiberfab, either before, during or after CMC’s involvement.And finally, I suspect Classic Coach, Design Classics Inc. and Modern Classic are actually assemblers, and not kit manufacturers. Not sure though.PMOSSBERG2015-07-21 13:01:37
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
No, you’re not dense. The connection, very slight, was in response to the comment above that “some of the kits went to Japan”.
Yes, any serious replica club in Japan would have a Japanese-language website which would make persuing this connection pretty difficult.
😕LRH
If I were an optimistic manufacturer ordering pre-engraved plates, I would order a big supply all at once to get a quantity break from the engraver. Also, with all the shuffling going on between successive owners of kit companies, who knows what might have happened.I think that some of these details are going to remain a mystery.
Each of Daytona and Fiberfab made both Migi and Migi II cars. I have brochures from each.
From an original of a Daytona Migi brochure:
“…..we undertook the development in November 1974 and after many hours of mold development…we produced the FIRST MG-TD fiberglass replica body, which I named “MIGI”, in February 1975.” signed LaVerne Martincic, President Daytona Automotive Fiberglass, INC.
May 1977 Car and Driver magazine also credits Daytona as “the first”.
Fiberfab’s use of the Migi name was challenged by Daytona and in 1982 a Federal court order decreed that only Daytona could use the Migi name. To further complicate things, for a while, Daytona called its Migi II a MIGETTE. Both the Daytona Migi II and the MIGETTE used a Chevette drivetrain.
I have in my documentation somewhere that Fiberfab eventually bought all of Daytona’s molds. (but I am not able to put my finger on it) This sounds likely since the Daytona factory was literally a spit from Fiberfabs. Daytona at 819 Carswell, Holly Hill, Fl. Fiberfab at 852 Carswell, Holly Hill, Fl. (almost directly across the street).
Good stuff! Thank you Roy!
So we know Daytona and FiberFab are separate companies.What we don’t know is, of the members that simply entered MiGi or MiGi II, which company made their car?Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Seems like we have at least one of every manufacturer’s product reresentated here except two:
Piper Auto’s Seneca, andPrototype Research & Development Ltd.’s TDNot to late for one of them, if one of you wants to spend the big bucks required to buy a TD from Prototype! Pricey!Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
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