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I have been planning an engine upgrade for my Chevette powered British Coach Works. Probably a GM 4.3 with 5 speed. It looks like I will have to remove the hood side panels. But I would like to keep the top part that has the hood latch. It there any possibility of finding a set of side panels? They may be the same for front engine or VW power. Also, I would like to use a set of Corvette knock off rims that I have. So would need to convert to 5×4 3/4 bolt pattern. Anyone have any ideas on possible ways to do this?
1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedIf I am not mistaken, the 60-degree GM six fits without taking the side panels off. I think you’re talking about the 3.4 liter? (Not 4.3)? That’s a stout engine for this size car and I believe there is a 4 barrel manifold available.
As for the wheels: You have a Chevette bolt pattern with an adaptor that takes it to 4 x 130, the VW Beetle size. I’d take the adaptor to a machine shop and tell them you want a different one.
One caveat: measure your fender clearance and your wheel offset before you get carried away. I believe a 15 x 6 wheel might fit under your fenders, depending on your offset. Maybe not. The old Corvette wheels seemed to be deep-dish. They’d probably stick out pretty far on a BCW.
Even if you use the 4.3, it should fit. There are TDr’s on this forum running the small block V8 with side panels intact. I thought about doing that a while back, before joining this forum, and concluded that the accessory drive for the alternator would not clear. Since then manufacturers have devised brackets that tuck it in real close. Problem solved.
Ed is correct, though. Chevy has the 3.4 which has more than enough oomph and would be an easier fit.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"I had originally thought I would use a 60 degree V6, but there are many more upgrade parts for the 4.3. I would like about 200 HP. I don’t remember reading about any MGTDr on this site with a V8. Would any be BCWs?
I know I can narrow a rear end to get the Chev rims under the fenders, but the front is going to be the problem. The current rotors are something called hub in rotor and the center sticks out about 3 inches. If I could get a flat rotor with the 5 bolt pattern it would work. So dumb question time. Can I get a Chev front assembly that will just bolt where the ball joints are?
1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedInteresting. 3/4 of a 350. 200 hp should be pretty easy with that. This should get you started. I think the heads on those engines are the weak point, from a flow perspective, but 200 hp should be available with a small cam, intake and headers anyway. (Ah, wait! There’s an aluminum intake for the Vortec heads! Problem solved!).
The V8 guy has a BCW, I think. It had a 283 in it and the side covers removed—but they didn’t have to be. I think he had problems with brakes. The Chevette rig wasn’t right and fitment of any other master cylinder was problematic, what with the steering shaft, exhaust pipes and cylinder banks all vying for the same space.
I think the car also had overheating issues, but don’t recall. (Could be because he lived in AZ, and because my 350 Nova had overheating issues back in the day). The problems he had seemed solvable with a bit of cash and time, but the guy ended up losing his job. He dropped off the board for a long time, dropped back in about a year and a half ago and then I think went away? Apologies, sir, if you’re reading this. Please do chime in.
The 4.3 will sit back and be lighter than the v8. Should fit fine inside the side covers. I’d try to work out the front steering and brakes first though.
Cool-ass project!
This would be a better discussion if I could post pictures.
But I cannot get “source” under the Image icon to work. Any ideas?1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedThis problem is supposedly being worked on as we type. There is a way to post pictures but it is a bit complicated & clunky. Here’s the process, as of now:
- go to the upper right part of the screen where it says “Howdy, ricrx7” and hover your cursor there. You’ll get a dropdown menu.
- On the bottom of that menu, hover over “media.” That will give you another dropdown.
- Click on “photos.” That will bring you to another page, where all your pictures are. You probably have none.
- Right under where it says “All Photos” you’ll see “upload.” Click on that.
- You’ll see a little box where you can drag and drop a photo. Do that. We’re making progress, but we’re not even close to done…
- Once your picture loads, it will join the little gallery (or start the little gallery) on the page you’re at. Click on it.
- Now your picture should be full size. You need to click on it again, with the right-side mouse button. You should see another box open in the middle of the picture. In the middle of your choices is “Copy Image Address.” Click that.
- Now hit your browser’s “back” button (or left arrow) to get back to the part of the forum you want your picture in. Like right here.
- Above your dialogue box is a gray bar with a smily face on the far left. The second icon from the right end is a jagged mountain with a setting moon. Yeah, that’s it. Hover over it and it says “Insert/edit image.” Click that.
- You’ll open yet another box. This one has a box in it marked “Source.” Put your cursor there and hit control V. That will paste the address of your photo in it. Then hit OK. You should then see something like:
Ed, that is an excellent clear and concise “how to” for a very convoluted process. Can you (or Paul or Steve) with your magic website access put this “how to” somewhere where everyone can find it — like say on the opening screen with flashing lights and arrows all around it?
That will help folks until a simpler method is found.
I’m with Ricrx7 — pictures are vital to the health of the discussion……
Happy Jack
Thanks Ed.
Yes, Stephen is looking for a better picture posting solution.
Meanwhile I created a Posting Pictures thread in the “How to do this in the forum” folder https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/posting-pictures-2/
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Ok – here is a test picture – I had to change the directions a little
1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedHere is a shorter list if directions:
1 Howdy – hover – select Media – select Photos
2 All Photos – Upload – Select your File
3 Click for full size – right click for options – select Properties – copy address
4 Go to desired location to post picture
5 Make sure Visual box is selected and click icon for images (picture of mountains)
6 Cursor on Source – right click – paste (or Ctrl V)
1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedMembers need to know that pictures need to be in your Gallery before they can be placed in a post. Then posting a picture is basically the normal computer steps of “copy address” and “paste address.” Although the picture address needs to be copied before any text is written in a post.
Back to my modifications. Here is a picture of my front suspension and rotor. Can I just find a Chev spindle and rotor I want and both to the ball joint locations?
Oops did it to Gallery picture before clicking to make it large.
1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedIt worked! 🙂
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackOK, back to the topic at hand. Because everyone is entitled to my opinion, I hereby advise Ric to reconsider the 60-degree V6 instead of the 90.
He wants 200 horses. The 4.3 GM came stock with that, fuel-injected and could easily make that with a 4-bbl carb and a small cam. Makes sense. But.
So could the 3.4 (it came with 180 hp from Chevy). The initial outlay would be a few hundred bucks more, but I think he’d save that in grief doing the swap.
I’d go with a 3.4 from an early ’90s Camaro or S-10. Try to find one with a 5-speed already on it. Pull the FI off it, buy an earlier 2.8 HEI distributer from a junk yard and replace the module.
Pull the heads and send them for a 3-angle valve job. Or exchange, $175/head for the aluminum ones.*
Pull the stock cam and install this. $160
Buy a set of 1.6-ratio roller rockers and your intake lift is .442. $160. That’ll get you about 185 horses at 5500 rpm.
Edelbrock intake is a 2-piece at about $400. Ouch, I know. That’s about $250 more than the 90-degree setup.* Your 390 or 500 cfm 4-bbl is another $300 with either engine.
Headers? Rare, compared to the alternative, but not expensive. $240. These will almost certainly need to be modified to fit. I’d probably grab them, though, because it looks like the long “down sections” on both sides could be shortened fairly easily by a good exhaust shop, and this kit would give you a big head start compared with asking for a full custom build. Now, the 90-degree engine has those inevitable “shorty” style available which I guess would work in the TD. (And are not actually cheaper?) But here’s where things get interesting. The wider engine is going to be harder to fit, particularly on the driver’s side. Our friend with the V8 saw all his issues in the back of the driver’s side of the engine, where the cylinder bank, exhaust pipes, steering shaft and master cylinder all vied for the same space. Bottom line with the 90 is you don’t know what sort of exhaust you’re going to have to fab-up, and you could be looking at money there…
The 60-degree v6 takes the cylinders and exhaust inboard a few inches. That is something you will like very much when trying to make it all fit elegantly.
The 60-degree motor is also 75 pounds lighter than the 90-degree: 350 lbs instead of 425.
Consider that the Chevette engine weighs 300, and you now have a strong case for leaving the Chevette front suspension in place. You might have to fiddle with the springs, or shim them. Maybe not. My guess is the 60-degree engine would lower the nose less than a half inch, which might even be a good thing. Suddenly you’re saving tons of time and money not re-engineering the front end of the car…
I’ve given a lot of thought to your project, Ric, and I hereby hope you’ll assign my advice a value greater than I’ve charged.
*update: so the aluminum heads from the front-wheel drive cars are absolutely the thing to have. Out of the junk yard they flow better than the most professionally-breathed-upon iron heads and YET there is no carburetor-compatible intake manifold available in the aftermarket. A dead end? Nah! Look at the stock FI intake. See how nice and wide and flat it is on top? That bad boy us just begging to be sliced open for a carb (or two! Or three Webers!). For simplicity’s sake, just grind out a nice square hole and have your favorite professional weld one of these aluminum carb spacers to it. Then block off the stock throttle body inlet or (if you want to be fancy about it) weld it over. This is how you get a simple, high-flow 4bbl intake on a 3.4 for approximately $100 (depending on the welder’s fee). It’s single-plane, so it won’t be so torquey as the iron head combo. And you’ll want at least .500 lift at the valves to make it work. But you’ll easily surpass 200 horses with it. And it will look cool as hell. (I can guess what you’re thinking: Ed, that’s insane. Nobody cuts open a multi-port fuel injection system to mount a carb! It will never work! But I—and several others here—happen to know someone who did this exact operation on a Subaru engine. Mounted a Weber progressive 2bbl to it and has been driving happy for three years). The real hot setup with this V6 would be three Weber 44 IDAs. I’d cut the manifold top off and insert plenum separators, then weld the top back on and drill for the carbs. That would make it fly & it would look like a Maserati engine under there….
I remember a high performance 3.4 GM engine in a crate motor catalog that came across my desk when I last did GM parts. Unfortunately, that was over 15 years ago, so I can’t confirm they still offer it. Ask nicely at your local GM parts counter. I believe it was well in excess of 200 hp and had a carbureted intake on it.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"GM Crate appears to have been discontinued circa 2010. I doubt a used one would be bad though. The 3.1 in my old Sunbird was over 150k miles when I sold it, and I saw the car driving around two years later, still looking good.
The 3.4 crate was rated at 160 hp & had the General’s best iron heads. 1.72 intake and 1.42 exhaust. You bolted on your existing truck intake.
This rig would certainly move a TDt very smartly. But those aluminum heads would really wake it up. I love the idea so much of making a carb intake on this with a cut-off wheel I might just do it as a proof of concept….
Ric, here is how to get decent vented 11-inch rotors and good calipers on the Chevette for short money. These guys left the 4 x 100mm wheel studs but you could set them to whatever you like at the machine shop. You like 5 x 4.75 (assuming those nifty Vette knock-offs will fit). I’d advise 4 x 4.5, which open you up to using proper MWS wires or 15 x 6 Nissan Sentra / Altima steelies, which just happen to offset almost 100 percent into the fenders and have the TD-correct 15 holes. Here’s a shot of them on the mythical V8 car which, as you can see, is not a BCW.
To give an idea of how damn close those modern, strong, reasonably wide wheels look to what Abington intended, here’s a shot of a stock TD with factory steelies:
Great suggestions. Ed – how soon can you get to Florida to start work on this project? Just to complicate this discussion, I have a Buick 215 sitting in my garage. All I know about the engine is that it was used for drag racing until it become non-competitive. Here are the rims I would like to use.
I am still thinking I can find a spindle that will fit – maybe by just modifying the ball joints.
1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedA lightweight aluminum V8. Perfect.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Bill’s spot on. The Buick/Rover 215 would be the perfect ultimate engine for a hot TDr in my opinion.
I think I may have the front spindle solved. Use an S10 rotor and hub with Timken set 30 inner bearing and Timken set 3 outer with a spacer to fit on Chevette axle. At least that is what I found on the internet and it never lies.
I’ll need some help with finding the correct 5 sp trans for the Buick 215. Probably on the MGexp site.
1986 British Coach Works Type 52 (Sammy)
Chevy 2.8 V6, 5 speedWell, why didn’t you say so (re the Buick)? If it was drag raced I’ll bet it’s been punched-out to 4.9 liters by now. Probably over-cammed, too, for this application. But yeah. It’ll fit nicely. Probably a click narrower than the 4.3 would be.
I guess I’ll have to make my own front-engine TD if I want to do the 3.4-avec-triple-webers route, eh? Maybe next year…
As for your trans, I’ll leave it to you to weigh the relative merits of a T-5 Borg Warner vs the Rover/TR8 box.
Wow, – an aluminum 215 in a TDr! Makes me want to put on my dirty clothes and climb under the car. The only other swap that would excite me was a swap that I knew about 45 years ago: A TD with a fully chromed “60 HP”, flat-head Ford V8 with 3 carbs, intake and exhaust headers and a cam. No question that it would not hold a candle to the 215 from the stoplight, but it was beautiful and fit perfectly within the bonnet………and the sound was simply beautiful.
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