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My insurance with 1 million liability is about the same as Pauls with Haggerty.
I have never had insurance with them until this year
How can we really tell the true cost of our MGTDr? What should we insure our cars for? If someone were to crash into our car, it probably would have to be totaled due to the cost of repair parts. That is if you could find the body parts…….. 😐
Thanks for your comments!
Dave
Dave
Lakeland, Florida, where we drive Topless every dayDave, when I bought mine I added it to my State Farm policy. They required me to get it appraised at one of their approved appraisal shops (basically a body shop they recommend). Mine is a flat replacement price for the appraised amount, at the time was $18,500 (I didn’t argue). I need to get it re-done it’s been 5+++ years and I have added a lot of stuff to it. My agent also took lots of pictures for his file too.
If (and I hope I never have to use it) anything happens to it they cut me (or my heirs, because I know if it’s a crash I’ll be a goner) a check. Anyway that’s how its suppose to work, we covered the insurance topic in a couple other posts. I forgot to talk to Paul last year at Carisle and see if the wording is correct in my policy. I think he said he used to be in the insurance business. Several other’s have theirs with Haggerty’s, but their rate was more $$$$$$$ than State Farm, ALOT MORE.
Here are the basics.
When you get into specialty coverages, like collector cars, there are two terms you will see the layman use interchangeably, Stated Amount (or Stated Value) and Agreed Value. These terms are NOT the same.
Even worse, the standard auto insurers, may use the stated amount term,
without being clear as to what they are selling. That is the reason they
can sell you the insurance at a lower price, because they are actually
assuming less risk.Stated Amount (or possible Stated Value): When the value of a vehicle is not generally known, like the value of your daily driver, you and the insurer will agree to a “stated amount” on which to base the premium. That could simply be your estimate, it might be the company’s estimate, it might be based on an appraisal. The key here is that “Stated Amount” is not a type of COVERAGE. It is only the basis for the insuracne premium. And when you read your policy, you will see that a collision or comprehensive loss will still be paid based on the Actual Cash Value (ACV) at the time of the loss. That means that DEPRECIATION will be applied in determining how much you will be paid in the event of a total loss.
Agreed Value: In this case, you and the insurer will agree to a value for the vehicle. And that AGREED VALUE will be used for BOTH determining your Collision and Comp premium AND the amount you will be paid in the event of a total loss. The actual policy coverage language will be different than what I described above. There should be no mention of ACV or depreciation.
Here is an example of a standard Loss Settlement provision in a standard auto policy. The underlining is mine. You do NOT want to see this in your TDr’s policy:
LIMIT OF LIABILITY
A. Our limit of
liability for loss will be the lesser of the:1. Actual cash
value of the stolen or damaged property; or2. Amount
necessary to repair or replace the property with other property of like kind
and quality.However, the most we will pay for loss to:
1. Any
“non-owned auto” which is a trailer is $1500.2. Electronic
equipment that reproduces, receives or transmits audio, visual or data signals,
which is permanently installed in the auto in locations not used by the auto
manufacturer for installation of such equipment, is $1,000.B. An adjustment
for depreciation and physical condition will be made in determining actual cash
value in the event of a total loss./* Style Definitions */
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mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}This is an example of a loss settlement provision in a policy which was written on a Stated Amount (or Stated Value). Again, you do not want to see this in your TDr’s policy:
“In the event of theft or a total loss we will pay the Stated Value
or the Actual Cash Value, whichever is less.”
And finally, here is an example of what you WANT to see. A clear, simple statement, that in the event of a total loss, the insurer will pay the amount you and the company agreed to.In the event of theft or a total loss we will pay the Agreed Value.
PMOSSBERG2014-12-20 12:13:13
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Montie…no need to wait for Carlisle
I’d be glad to take a look at the policy language. Email is pmossberg at verizon dot net.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul as usual you have been a wonderful resource. So thanks a bunch for clearing up potential issues of our TDr insurance that should show the “Agreed Repalcement Value”. The question now comes to be, what should we agree to the value of the our TDr’s to be?? I see so many different “For Sale Values”, how do we know if we have a $4000 car or a $15000 car, or maybe more. I tried to look at Edmonds car values with no luck.
Thanks again
Dave
Dave
Lakeland, Florida, where we drive Topless every dayThis time it’s just my humble opinion. The direct answer? Whatever you think it’s worth. Your insurer may accept that number; they may want an appraisal.
Here’s my story….
I initially insured my TDr for what I put into her, the cost of the donor car, the kit, other accessories, rebuilding the engine, etc. And um, perhaps I inflated that just a bit.
American Collectors accepted my number. And off we went. That was in 1983
Over the years, the annual inflation guard increased the value well beyond what I thought it was worth. They had the value up around $18,000.
At my last renewal, I lowered the agreed value to $10k. Could I sell the car for that? Of course not. But after the initial build, a new engine and other maintenance stuff, I feel ok getting that amount if the car were totaled or stolen.
And for what it’s worth, earlier this year when I bought and insured my Intermeccanica 356 Roadster, American Collectors once again accepted my valuation. They asked for no further proof.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul,
Along with the others, I am grateful for your insights into the complicated and confusing world of insuring something as unconventional as a TDr. I have mine insured with USAA. They’ve given me great service over the years and didn’t flinch at the prospect of insuring a kit car. At the moment, mine is garaged for the winter with dirt-cheap minimum coverage. But when I fire her up again in the spring, I will take your comments into account and will talk with USAA about some of the finer points you raised so I can be confident I have adequate coverage.
Thanks again, and best wishes for a very merry Christmas,
Dave
Dave,
I also have mine insured with USAA but the actual carrier is American Collectors. Are you getting your coverage directly from USAA or is subcontracted to someone else like American Collectors. I assumed that USAA had farmed me out to American Collectors because they did not actually insure classics, kits, etc. Just like with motorcycle insurance, were the subcontractor is actually Progressive.Thanks so much!Vicenç - (bee sense)
Pembroke Pines, FL
1986 Aston - BCW Model 52 - "Montse II"(1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse")
Vicenç,
If you are writing about this American Collectors, they are not your insurance company. They are a broker. Your policy declarations page and your insurance ID cards will show who the actual insurance company is.I bought the insurance for my three collector cars through American Collectors. The carrier they placed the insurance with is American Bankers Insurance Company of Florida. See this link for more info about the insurance companies American Collectors works with.PMOSSBERG2014-12-23 11:39:40
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Paul, you are absolutely right. I checked the docs and, while they list USAA as the broker and American Collectors as the producer (whatever that means), the actual insurance is issued by American Bankers Insurance Company of Florida. Thanks for helping clear that up for me.
I agree with Royal that this should be a separate file somewhere to help all the other members.Merry Christmas!Vicenç - (bee sense)
Pembroke Pines, FL
1986 Aston - BCW Model 52 - "Montse II"(1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse")
“Producer” is a synonym for “insurance agent.”PMOSSBERG2014-12-23 14:33:11
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
With Hagerty I was told to send them a front picture, a back pic, 2 sides and engine pics .A week later they called and said they were looking at some pictures of a really cool car and all was good . Before that I had American collectors. Two many hoops .
Odd how our experiecnes can be so different. What kind of hoops Greg?
American Collectors – I had to submit two pics, front 3/4 view and rear 3/4 view. The TDr application was submitted on paper because the web site didn’t exist. But adding my Plymouth, and then the Intermeccanica, as well as any changes, have all been done on line. Easy-peasy.Ed, it’s not really three middle men. Here’s my take…USAA, as I’m sure most of you know, is one of the best insurers in the country. They specialize in taking care of our armed forces and their families, active and retired. Their focus is traditional auto and homowners.Being in the business, I’m fairly confident this is how things went inside USAA’s conference rooms. They could have developed their own antique and collector car program. That’s actually a pretty significant task. Write the contracts, price it, make all the required filings with the state insurance departments in every state in which they are licensed. Then they have to staff and develop the underwriting expertise to properly understand and service a unique market niche. And of course, handling and settling claims for antiques requries information you won’t find in generic workshop manuals and parts books.Or, USAA could partner with organizations that already have all that in place.Which would you do?As a service to their clients that need it, USAA found and provided a market to their customers, more efficiently, and at a better price to the consumer than if they had done it all on their own.Just my two cents.PMOSSBERG2014-12-24 12:36:35
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
What Paul said, I’ve been with USAA since 1983 and wouldn’t change them for the world. Like Paul I had to submit two pics, front 3/4 view and rear 3/4 view but I was able to do the application online. Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.
Vicenç - (bee sense)
Pembroke Pines, FL
1986 Aston - BCW Model 52 - "Montse II"(1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse")
I also use USAA for home, auto, life and banking. Have done so for almost 40 years. They’re the BEST business that I’ve used for anything – one phone call from anywhere will usually resolve any issue I might encounter.
BTW, they use Progressive to insure RVs, motorcycles and ATVs…
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...With American collectors I paid towing bill and they paid a percentage back to me. I had to go to agent they took pictures (she is a friend of mine ).Agent husband is a car collector .He has Haggerty .Pays a more says its worth it . Has anyone ever had a large claim with any collectors insurance .
I have not Greg. Thankfully!
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
During my restoration of “HERBIE”, I was on the way with my VW CHASSIS to my engine mechanic, (the body was on a hoist in the garage) and was rear ended by a SUV. Even though I had a Bright Orange flag tied around the motor, this lady hit my engine at the crankshaft pulley not once, but twice!! Long story short, she was sited for careless driving, but had insurance through Allstate. Allstate made me JUMP through several hoops on the evaluation of my claim, as they had no record or history of valuing a 1972 VW ENGINE/chassis.. After one month, I got a check for $636.71. I had to call the supervisor of the claim rep, because she did no know how to handle my claim. So this has been a terrible, time consuming, and expensive for me, horrible experience. Moral of the story, I WAS NOT IN GOOD HANDS WITH ALLSTATE. STAY AWAY FROM THEM!!!! I did not have Herbie insured, because I was undertaking a rebuild. So I guess getting insurance maybe easy, but when it comes to making a claim, it becomes a real challenge. I am going to take Paul’s suggestion, and get agreed upon coverage. Thanks again Paul, your help has been invaluable.
Dave
Lakeland, Florida, where we drive Topless every dayGlad ya’ll found my info useful!
I believe most of the antique/classic auto insureres have special coverage for cars under restoration. I don’t know the specifics, nor do I know if they will sell it alone, or only as additional coverage on an existing policy. But for those of you still in the “project stage,” it’s worth asking the questions.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Vicenç,
Sorry–I’ve been off-line for a few days and I’m just reading your question to me now. As far as I knew, I had straightforward USAA coverage. I’ll have to take a closer look at the policy and see if there’s anyone else in the chain. When I bought mine it was already registered in PA with regular plates and that may have been a factor in how easy it was for me to get coverage.
-Dave
Thanks, Dave. I’m just curious to find out.
Vicenç - (bee sense)
Pembroke Pines, FL
1986 Aston - BCW Model 52 - "Montse II"(1983 FiberFab MiGi II - "Montse")
Paul I finally got around to checking into my insurance with State Farm. Here is a paragraph from the policy. Mine runs about $300 a year for 18,500 (State Farm’s approved appraiser cost me $60) agreed value, Haggerty’s was quite a bit higher when I bought the car 5 or so years ago.
“More Reasons to Choose State Farm”
- Lower insurance premiums since your antique auto or classic car is used on a very limited basis such as exhibitions, club activities or parades.
- When you choose antique or classic car insurance with us, you and State Farm will agree on the value of the car. If the car experiences a total covered loss, we will pay this agreed-upon value, rather than the actual cash value of the car.**
That’s mostly good news Montie. But….
The material you quoted is not from the insurance policy. It’s marketing material.You probably have the right coverage. But I still want you to read the actual insurance policy. That document is the contract between you and State Farm. In the event of a claim, they won’t be looking at the marketing material to determine the amount to be paid. And by then, it’ll be too late to correct teh coverage.It’s not like I don’t trust the insurance companies or anything like that. But….Caveat Emptor!Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
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