- This topic has 22 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 2 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I finally got these on the MiGi TDr. It’s an EMPI kit. I had to use the spacers on both sides to center the calipers. Took about 4 hours to get them on and bled. Stops the Tdr very nicely. The hardest part was getting the old brake lines lose. I did buy new rubber brake lines and bearings. I also had the races pressed in by a local shop.
In wine there is truth, in water health.
Mine are still sitting in an unopened box… I don’t think it’s the Empi kit, but I honestly don’t remember.
Are people doing the disk conversion without a residual pressure valve? I’ve seen that adding one is sometimes necessary, especially on American cars. Seen little discussion on VW conversions…
This week has been consumed by other higher prioity outside chores. Hope to get back to the TDr next week…
Early FF TDr on 69 VW pan
Slowly coming back from the ashes...Thanks guys! As to the pressure valve, it is my understanding that if you ony add disc’s to the front it is not necessary. If you do all four corners you must change the master cylinder that incorporates a proportioning valve. I hope others will chime in. I read the Samba threads on this and other threads which is how I researched this beforehand. And there are a few guys here who have shared their experiences. Dbanta2016-03-12 20:14:35
In wine there is truth, in water health.
Kent,
Just over 2 yrs ago, I installed some front disc brakes that I had bought from SoCal for a bit over $200. I also put in a new master cylinder at the same time (nothing special). The kit was made by AC Industries in China. Still VW drums on rear.
Good looking kit. Rather nicely finished. Works great – no pressure valve.
I installed the Empi kit last weekend using the socket and 2×4 method to install the bearings. Only problem encountered was with the casting nub on face of caliber. It is proud of the face of the disk and consequently would not allow the wheel to rotate. Had to install a 1/4″ wheel spacer and use longer wheel lugs to clear the the nub. CIP1 tech recommended grinding off the nub. Believe the problem was unique to 80’s vintage Keystone mags so ordered VW style 4-130 wheels, 165/80R15 tires and dog dish hub caps. $300 disk conversion ended up costing $1500 but new rubber was on the todo list just took place sooner than anticipated
David B Dixon
Port Perry ON CA
SabineI found a new mechanic who was able to fix my engine, and now it purrs very nicely. Upon driving home, however, I noticed a new issue … or at least one that I had overlooked up to now.
My original so-called “professional” mechanic (who screwed up everything else) also put on the EMPI front disc brakes. Supposedly it also got a new master cylinder and it definitely got all-new brake lines, the stainless steel kind. I had horrible squealing before, and my mechanic friend from Missouri and I found that the driver’s side rotor wasn’t tight and was likely vibrating under braking. We lubed everything properly and used the CRC anti-squeal. I couldn’t drive it until today, so today was the first test to see how things worked.On the 20 mile drive home from the mechanic in heavy traffic, the front squealing seemed to be eliminated BUT the brake system as a whole locks up and skids easily, and I mean easily. I don’t expect my car to stop like a modern car but neither do I want to sound like a cartoon at every intersection unless I coast up to it. I may be dumb, but I can’t tell if it’s the front or the back that’s locking.I noticed that when coasting very slowly (no brakes applied) I can hear a slight squeaking that seems to come from the back. There is also some light squealing with the brakes applied lightly, and that also seems to come from the back. The pedal is very firm, which is another reason why it’s really easy to skid; I have to apply the brakes very gingerly because the pedal is so hard. It’s almost like an on-off switch. I suspect that the back brakes are simply adjusted too tight.I have read elsewhere that people install a proportioning valve and residual pressure valve in this situation. Then and again, maybe it would be enough just to loosen up the rear brakes. However, I don’t want to loosen them too much and make the problem worse, and I really can’t tell from the videos which way the adjustments move to make them tighter or looser. Before I touch the brakes, does anybody have any suggestions to deal with this?Drive around the block and try stopping with only your emergency/parking brake. …will help you sort out the front/rear question.
I installed discs on my TD with no proportioning valve. Everything works great.johnsimion wrote:coasting very slowly (no brakes applied) I can hear a slight squeaking that seems to come from the back. There is also some light squealing with the brakes applied lightly, and that also seems to come from the back.—8<—can't tell from the videos which way the adjustments move to make them tighter or looser.I can’t recall adjuster directions either. I would just raise the wheel off the ground and turn the adjusters (opposite top/bottom) until drag is reduced enough to freely rotate wheel/drum.Hopefully you don’t have a warped or unevenly worn drum, but I guess it could be about the shoe pads themselves instead.Regarding squeaks… I just had all the brakes redone on a 40 year old Corvette I bought a few months ago and the new brake pads in back were found to be glazing already. All disc brakes in my case though. Roughened the surfaces helped but something is still causing not-normal yet quieter squeaks+clicks, having to wait out enough driving to find out what’s going on. Just saying you might be in for some sleuthing time looking for the cause.Sorry for your trouble, John.
How old are your tires? How much air pressure in them?And how hard and unforgiving is your front axle beam?I ask about all these non-brake things because, when I first got Bridget, she had*old tires*with 30 lbs of pressure in front and back, and*full torsion spring packs in the beam.And she wanted to skid. Even going slowly around corners, without applying the brakes at all, the front tires would squeal amusingly.I almost rear-ended Paul driving around Carlisle that year.What was happening was this: the high spring rates and high air pressure exacerbated the car’s tendency to understeer, while the old tires (with their hardened rubber) made the problem worse.I had stock drum brakes at the time.Just lowering the tire pressure in front to about 14 lbs solved about 65 percent of the problem. New tires took care of another 20 percent. The last 15 percent came when I pulled all the small springs out of both beams, softening the ride. For a minute, while those tires were newish, my car handled well enough to inspire some confidence on the auto-cross track.If your tires are already newish and you’ve already got under 16 lbs in front, ignore all of the above and concentrate on the brakes.Ah memories! Thanks Ed!
All good advice above. Here’s the adjustment direction for your drums:- Right-hand star – turn upward to tighten
- Left-hand star – turn downward to tighten
All the detail here thanks to Rob & Dave’s aircooled pages: http://www.vw-resource.com/adjust1.htmlPaul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Other than loosening the rears a little so they don’t touch the drums when not applied, I think the main issue is to somehow reduce the hardness of the pedal so it isn’t just on-off. The tires are new (since Nov. 2014 anyway) and have low pressure. Dunno about the stiffness of the narrowed front axle beam, but the car rides and steers fine, at least up to 55 which is as fast as I’ve taken it.
I have an appointment Tuesday with the new mechanic, who remarked that a good deal of my problem is just the “lightness” of the car and having disc brakes. However, a motorcycle is even lighter and they don’t skid if you just apply the brakes a bit too hard. This guy seems to be a lot smarter (and faster) than the other idiot, so maybe he can figure something out.
Best of luck with it! Braking is something I’ve been (re)learning to do right, and skidding least as I can, ever since getting my MGTDr!
There is always the adjustable propotioning valve.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"with our weight distribution front drums are enough I bought bigger diameter rear wheel cylinders like the dune buggy guys use. I want all 4 wheels to lock up at the same time
If you’re stuck driving in the rain, you’ll appreciate the discs.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"“If you’re stuck driving in the rain, you’ll appreciate the discs.”
I live in Vegas. LOL. If rain is remotely in the forecast, I’m not going out. And if I totally misjudge the situation, I’m already screwed because I don’t have any side curtains or any way of adding them.I’ve long since come to the conclusion that I wasted my time and money putting on the disc brakes. Now I am just trying to make them work okay. It’s called, “making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.”Update: Have now been advised that a good part of my problem was that the passenger rear drum wasn’t attached properly and was loose. I believe that, because my wife had noticed that particular wheel wiggling back and forth while following me to the shop. This problem was yet another relic of the previous idiot mechanic. The new guy also said that my front calipers were frozen in place, which might have been contributing to the squealing and lockup problem. He says there really isn’t much else we can do about the lock-up problem since there is not enough weight on the front end. He suggested that adding some weight and reducing air pressure in the front tires might help. Those are do-able, and I’ll just have to leave good-sized following distances. At least now I won’t have to worry about my *(&^% wheel coming off!
johnsimion2016-05-31 20:39:10good thing you noticed the wobble before it was too late. She’s gotta go and importantly, she’s gotta stop. Yes, reducing the air pressure to around 16 or 17 pounds in the front will make it ride a little better. Some of the guys have put some weights in the front to compensate for the light front end or have taken some of the springs (torsion bars) out of the front end to soften up the ride.
In wine there is truth, in water health.
Well, picked up my car today (again). We lowered the front pressure down to 20 psi and with that and all the brake work, the brakes are much improved for stopping. The squealing was totally eliminated for the first 20 miles of stop-and-go driving. I mean, dead silent, I was loving it. Just in the last five miles before I got home, however, I started to notice a light squeal just at the point of stopping. Not horrible like before, and I can live with it, but it made me wonder — would the 100 degree temperatures and stop-and-go driving make the brakes really hot and contribute to squealing?
This is sort of a followup, although it has to do with the drums rather than the Empi discs. I finally took my wife for a ride in Murphy, and her sharp ears detected that the horrible squealing was from the passenger’s side rear. I took the car into Mechanic #2, who spent quite a lot of time figuring out what was the problem. The drums were good; the lube was good; they were clean; and the shoes were new (as expected [for once] since Mechanic #1 was paid to replace them). Finally Mechanic #2 determined that the brake shoes — although new — simply had a “hard spot” on the passenger side that was creating the problem. He changed out the shoes and drove it 20 miles on two occasions and declared the brakes “silent.” I picked it up and drove it home this evening 20 miles in stop-and-go driving … it’s not silent. It’s MUCH better than before in that the squealing is now both random and not so noisy as before … but it’s still there, especially when just coasting along and barely touching the brakes. I called Mechanic #2 and he said to give it time to seat the brakes and maybe that noise would go away, if not he would warrant it. This is, after all, “Murphy’s Law,” er, “Murphy’s Car.”
Has anyone else had a similar problem, or even heard of such a thing? Bad brake shoes??? But I have to admit that he showed me the old (new) shoes where large sections of the shoes look shiny compared to the rest, and I also admit the problem is a lot better. But still, I’ve never heard or read of such a thing.
At least it stops pretty good now.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.