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Getting back to my ride height “problem”. I have torn the front end apart and it wasn’t really all that hard. (But I must confess to owning a ball joint fork and a gear puller that made that job easier.) Another tool that I own that is helpful but not really necessary is a 3/8 drive 1/4 hex for the grubs. I did not have a helper (she went shopping) and it can be done solo. Other than that if you are contemplating the job, you would need a few assorted pry bars and a good pair of vice-grips for grabbing the individual leaves.
I grabbed a leaf and then working the pry bar against the vice grips took the leaves out one inch at a time until they released. It is absolutely not necessary to remove both wheels and I worked almost exclusively from the passenger side since it did not have the speedo cable. The only thing that you really have to do on the opposite (driver’s) side is remove the grub bolts from the top and bottom trailing arms. Also, I did not remove the brakes but allowed the whole drum assembly to gently hang from the tie rod on the passenger side. No problem.
Re-assembly is to be tomorrow and I am hopeful that I can put riding comparisons with my old Willys CJ2A behind me. Here is what I have found (a big surprise): The top torsion tube had the standard 10 leaves of 4 big and 6 small. I removed all the small ones. The Bottom tube had 6 large leaves and 2 small leaves. I removed the small ones and two large ones (one from the top and one from the bottom of the bundle). So, – I am left with only 4 leaves in each tube. (looks rather skimpy from what it was.) I put all the removed leaves inside a 5 foot piece of PVC I found in my “white trash pile” behind my shed.
Unless I hit a snag, I should be able to get it back together in about an hour, and then, hopefully, on to the next part of my MIGI project.
I will try and post some photos of the work. Not too bad. Stay tuned!
Roy
Good work, Roy.
Interesting that your bottom tube had big leaves where two side-by-side small ones usually go.
Yeah Ed, I am not sure if someone has “been here before” or if this front end assembly came off some VW that was heavy in the front end. (Or they just wanted super stiff suspension.) Anyway, I started with 10 big leaves and 8 little ones (both tubes) and finished with 8 big ones and no little ones. Seems a bit radical to me, but am going with the collective advice of all on the forum. We’ll see: – after a couple of cups of coffee. I often get going too fast at the end and (although tired) sprint towards the finish line. I am trying to take a slower, more careful and considered attitude as I put her back together. Almost no sign of rust on any of the leaves and everything that I have looked at (swing arms, ball joints, bearings) look to be new. I really did get lucky on this eBay MIGI purchase.
Rocky, I am a bit embarassed by how incredibly “ready to eat off” clean your work looks. I always thought that I was a bit anal about cleanliness, but after comparing to your stuff, – I’m not. Just beautiful work on your stuff. You really could (perhaps should) put together a “replicar book for compleat idiots”. I tried to post pictures but they all seem to go in at random order and then the photos lay on top of my words and ???. How do you get WYSIWYG so that you add a narrative etc?
Anyway, I did post some pictures but they all go into my photo gallery. The only thing that I have in my pictures which may be of interest is the shot of the lower leaves which show 6 large leaves and 2 small instead of more common 4 large and 6 small. The two “outer large leaves” on the bottom were actually about the same width as two smaller ones together which is very slightly narrower that one of the standard big leaves. I would expect that the 6B+2S is slightly stiffer than 4B+6S configuration.
Success!
Thanks to all of you who held my hand while I took all those leaves out of my front end. I’m done. Took her for a ride and got the result that everyone predicted: Rides beautifully. I must admit that taking a total of 8 small and 2 large leaves had me very worried that when I put her back together and took the stands out, the tires would be touching the fenders. Not so. She dropped 2-1/2″ inches in the front. It now steers much better, tracks better and handles rough roads much better without so much jumping from pothole to pothole. In other words, it handles like those (pretty darn smart) German engineers intended it to. Everything is better. (It even looks better.) Thanks again to all. I am off to my next project now which is putting in a voltmeter and oil temp guage. I’m a very happy camper.
Roy
Woo Hoo!
Congratulations Roy!
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
YAY, man! First try, even. Nice work, and glad we could help (by typing guesses thousands of miles away).
Great job Royal. I’ll tip a glass to your success.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackGreat work Roy.
I don’t want to admit it but I guess I am a little obsessive about making sure every part is cleaned, inspected, and repainted before installation.
I figure I have one shot to do it right so ….why not.
Any way, great work on yours. Happy Driving!
Rocky, My comment on the cleanliness of your work was intended to be a compliment of the highest order. How you get the narrative between the photos?
Roy
Roy, Thanks for the compliment. I took it that way from the start.
Regarding the photos…when you are posting a reply there are 2 rows of icons above the space where you enter text. The last icon on the first row has a blue arrow over, what looks like, a tree. Click this button to load a photo in your narrative.
To get text between pics I will hit enter/return a couple of times before I load a picture and the move the cursor back up the screen to insert the photo. Then when the photo has loaded I hit the down arrow to go past it. Then I enter more text…then hit enter a couple of times…load photo…etc.
Hope that helps
I’m including before and after shots to show what you might expect if you remove all the small leaves from both tubes in the front. Thanks for all the great advice. Ride is also very much improved. Clearance is now about 2 1/2″ compared with old of a little over 5″.
Great reference photos Roy.
My Duichess’ ride height is fine. But now I know how much adusting I would have to do if I finally (after 29 years!) soften the front suspension.
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Had a little issue last night on the freeway.– The end of the left front spindle broke off. So a question since I have the front end apart can I get away with removing any of the torsion leaves to soften the ride if I have cut and turned the tube during construction as per the instruction manual. (This site did not exist when I was doing the build) Thanks for your input.
PhilPhil, simply cutting and turning the tube should not preclude removing leaves. As you can see from the pictures, removing all the smaller leaves will lower the front end about 2-21/2 inches. If you have the adjuster, then you could use that to restore the height if desired. Removing the leaves made the car much much more drivable, holding the road when on anything but perfect roads. Since my car was so high, it really improved its handling in cross winds and tractor trailer passings also. (You may have to adjust your front end alignment a bit…or as in my case it was better after removing leaves.)
Phil,
Do you have adjusters? Or were the tubes cut, turned and then rewelded in their new position?
And you wrote, “…per the instruction manual… Which kit?
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Fiber Fab kit
The tubes were cut, turned and then rewelded in their new positionNo adjusters.Paul. In the Fiberfab asssembly manual I have, page 17 details how to cut, turn and reweld the front beam. It’s the same in the Fiberfab assembly manual in the down load section; page 17. (Although I believe what I have and what you have are the CMC Fiberfab manuals.) The Migi assembly manual I have, mentions cutting the lower tube only two-inches from the center. That’s on page 103. I’m doing the front beam today and tomorrow on mine and have no intention on cutting on my front beam. Just removing all the short leaves. newkitman2012-08-02 09:02:33
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackBack to Phil’s question.
Phil’s car has had the beam cut, turned and welded in place. I believe that forced the car’s ride height lower, with out affecting the “spring rate.”Now that the car is sitting lower than it would have had the beam not been cut and turned, I think the question Phil is asking (without realizing it) is:“Will removing leaves affect ride height? OR will it only affect spring rate?”My guess is it will affect the ride height. But it’s just a guess.Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
Phil, if what Paul is asking is accurate, the answer is that removing leaves absolutely WILL affect the ride height. On my Daytona MiGi, removing all the small leaves reduced the front end height by about 2-1/2 inches.
The way I see it, you can either remove the small leaves to reduce the height, or reduce the height by cutting and welding the beam. Since your beam is cut, rotated and welded, and its still to high, removing the short leaves may drop it down to the height you want/need. Easier to work the leaves than recut and weld beam back to original. If removing the leaves doesn’t work you can reinstall the short leaves.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackThanks— The answers confirm what I was suspecting. The ride height is fine — so will not remove any leaves.
Phil:
The reason you want to remove leaves is to make the car ride better–and handle more safely.
The cut-and-turn method of lowering the ride height, which nearly every kt manufacturer specified because it was simple, results in a harsh ride and a dangerous tendency to understeer. The front springs are so stiff (since they’re made to handle over 1000 pounds and are only dealing with about 500) that the car will tend to “push” in tight corners. The tires just won’t bite, even if you have good brakes. They’ll just tend to lock up.
I know this because I drove my TD for about a year like that after I bought it. I’m not a fast or chancy driver and I still had several close calls. The car also wasn’t especially comfortable.
In my second winter I bit the bullet. I removed the whole front beam and installed an adjustable beam, which I reassembled with only the larger leaves. I added new end bushings and a caster shim, plus some other miscellany. Tried a couple of different shocks too. The parts cost under $400, all told, and the job was not fun (mostly because I found a bit of frame rust under the old beam). But I got ‘er done and the results were better than I was led to expect. The car now handles almost neutral and rides a million times better.
Would I do it again? Surely. But knowing what I know now, I would consider buying a set of beam adjusters and having them welded in. If you have a decent welder nearby they can do it–just make sure the understand that both tubes must be absolutely straight when they are done. I’d also narrow the beam a couple inches to tuck my front tires more correctly under the fenders. Might do that yet. Narrowing is a bit more tricky to do though, the VW enthusiasts say.
Anyway. Know this: I’m but the latest adjustable beam/spring softening evangelist on this board. I stand on the shoulders of the Greats who went before (“Pink MG” Mark, you still here?). Reading old posts I have seen several do the job and love it. I’ve seen none who did it report back that the change failed to improve the car very noticeably.
No one changes back to the cut beam with heavy springs.
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