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I have found a vehicle just completed. It looks great, pinto engine, etc. I want it BAD. The problem is the owner who was just finishing it died and there is NO paperwork. No donor car information, no fiber fab documents, other than the manuals etc.
IF it possible at all to get a title to a vehicle like this. It has no value but parts if not. What a shame because the thing is near perfect and just made drivable.
What do I do?
Hi,
We can’t even begin to answer until we know where you live. 😉
But the Specialty Equipmetn Manurfacturers Association has a great resource the SEMA Title and registration toolbox.
Click on your state to read the details for titling and registering info.
Paul
Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica RoadsterIf you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)
What a terrible problem!
Best to get a bill of sale from the seller and work from there. In most states you can get a title–eventually–but it might be a slog if you don’t have a manufacturers certificate of origin or a pretty complete list of donor parts and prices paid.
One way I’ve seen people move this issue, if the Dept. of Motor Vehicles roadblocks you, is to file in circuit court a “writ of mandamus” and bring your whole story to a judge.
Anyway, sit tight and don’t panic. Tell us where you are and we’ll try to help.
It might end up being pretty easy.
Thanks for the comments. I live in Missouri. I have been working on this all day and it seems that in Missouri there is a court action call declaratory judgement. I am checking into it tomorrow but told today I may need to hire a lawyer to fill out the petition. POSSIBLE BIG PROBLEM is that I was told today I may not have standing to file for a title as a perspective buyer and the builder can only do it. I hope to get the final details tomorrow. I need to get this figured out fast as the owner moved the car to a open junk filled garage that is just ripe to damage the thing. I need to get it bought and out of there but at the same time not spend money on something that I can’t title. Just for your information the car has 101 miles on it and the pinto motor was freshly overhauled for the build. It also has air conditioning. It is completely done except for charging the AC, wiring the gas gauge and fixing a steering part that is broken. I spoke to the owner today and can buy it for $2000 without the title. He pledges to help get a title but you know how that goes once he has the money in his hand. I am tempted to offer him $500 extra for the title as I know he has standing to petition for one.
These are small prices for what you’re looking at. Maybe spend $100 with the lawyer first and fashion the deal thusly:
You sign a contract with the seller promising to pay $2500 WHEN the car is titled, with $500 earnest money fronted.
Seller petitions for the title, with you and your lawyer’s help. You pay any court/legal costs.
???
Profits.
Ed, once again, gives good advice.
North Carolina allows a different route: Home-made. Allowing for our pre-NASCAR bootlegger and stock car heritage. Some inspections are required.
In Georgia they won’t title any vehicle as old as mine. MY TDr is on a 71 VW chassis so they won’t even consider it. Registration was pretty simple with bill of sale. Moneypenny is registered as a 1971VW-Other. Still wish I had a title for it though because without it Moneypenny is destined to live forever in Georgia. Unless the laws change. Wish you the best of luck in obtaining a title.
Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackGood luck with the hunt! I had to part out a 29 Gazelle since I couldn’t get the darn thing smog approved and registered (Titled as a 99 special construction vehicle)! The guy at the smog shop told me “Hey, she’s a VW…If it’s not Smokin…It’s broken!” He thought it was funny, while I just returned home with my tail between my legs!
Yesterday, I was driving through Newport Beach…A posh neighborhood along PCH and I saw a Gazelle for sale…I pulled in just out of curiosity…I inquired of the price because they don’t put it on the sign, in that neighborhood…The owner told me $25,000! I laughed like Tom Hanks did, when the claw foot tub fell through the ceiling, in The Money Pit!!! I only paid a couple thousand for the Gazelle I tossed away…Then my tail fell off all together!!!
I can still hear Tom Hanks laughing, right now…
Live and Learn, Boys and Girls!!! Live and Learn…
I have given up. I went to the Highway Patrol and got just bad news, I then went to the State Office of Motor Vehicles where I got more bad news and referred to the Circut Court Clerk. I went there and got more bad news regarding declaritory judgements, etc. I then called the guy who had it and told him what I found out, which of course ruined both our days. I am sick about it as this car is finished, brand new everything, Pinto motor overhauled and sounding great, new tires, etc, etc. Now destined to sit in his junky shop and go to hell. ENOUGH, I am trying to get it out of my mind. Thank all of you who have commented, I have appreciated your insight. I am moving on.
Is the person who is selling it the Executor of the builder’s estate? If so, can you get a bill of sale for the “uncompleted” kit listing it as pieces? You could then become the “builder” of record. Check and see if that will pass the documentation check.
Current owner I don’t think even knows builder. Builder died 5 years ago and the current owner bought it at a sale I think. He parked it in storage and left it set. Now 4 years later he drags it out and decides to sell it but has no papers at all and very little information regarding its history. It needed wired and some other minor thing when it got it out. He has the construction manuals and not much else.
Might I make another suggestion…
Buying a title, online, or a junked Kit with a good title for cheap. then just move the info to the kit you’re hoping to buy…I’m too stupid to know any better but I plead the 5th and spread eagle and all that legal stuff…All I know is that sometimes, you’ve got to play as dirty as the bureaucrats to get anything done…I own a contracting business and it’s as dirty as it gets!
If need be, you’d just transfer all of the vin tags and register it as the junked car you bought. Then apply the info to the new toy and destroy the old documents. Cops don’t check when you get pulled over and they expect that engines tranys and most other items that have a vin are often changed since they wear out…The only ones that stay are the ones on the frame but they only check in that much detail at the border of San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico…And if they’re checking that deep, you’ve got bigger problems to worry about! Lol!…Believe me, I ought to know…I’ve been pulled over many times and even pulled over just to talk about my cool car…My butt still went Tweet Tweet Tweet! But knock on wood, no tickets and no questions about my title (69 grand duchess)!
I hope this helps…It sounds like you’re already in love with the car…
Your Village Idiot…
P.S. You could also use this dilemma as a Bargaining Chip to get the car for much less! He already thinks he’s stuck with a White Elephant!
I am certainly not beyond playing the system as much as possible and have considered previously what you suggest. There are two problems here in Mo. One is that after getting a title it must be inspected by the Highway Patrol for matching part numbers and Vin’s. It is virtually impossible to get something like this past them. Secondly is insurance. Our insurance card must have not only the car description but the Vin on the card. It is a base fine of $250 to be without a proof of insurance card. If someone stopped me or I was in an accident, the changed vin, insurance not matching he car, etc. Heck, I would be in jail by nightfall.
I posted your dilemma on another forum. Its early yet, but the best response so far is to get it registered in another state with less strict requirements (Vermont or Maine?), then simply transfer it to MO.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Florida resident says he does it all the time. He says they don’t care where you’re from.
Bill Ascheman
Fiberfab Ford
Modified 5.0, 5sp., 4:11
Autocross & Hillclimb
"Drive Happy"Going back to my post of a week or so ago: Is it not possible in Missouri to build a car and then license it?
Are you saying that there is no such thing as home made licensed car?
In NC, the inspector (when I licensed my TDr) said that “home made” is fairly simple to get plates for. I didn’t go that way because I had all the necessary paperwork to title it as a 1952 MGTD replica.
Yes, in Mo you can license a home made car, kit cars, etc. It is a pretty strait forward process HOWEVER, you MUST have the purchase receipts, donor car title, etc. For example with the donor car title you can use the VIN for the new car, if you use the donor motor, transmission, and rear end and have the title in possession you are half way there. Next you must have the documentation for the body ranging from purchase receipt, mfg numbers, etc. With all these things you can pretty easily get a title after the Highway Patrol inspects if to verify all the numbers are from the donor car or with the kit. IF YOU DO NOT have the donor car title or the donor car’s VIN you are screwed. Also should you not be using the same donor cars motor, trans and rear end you must have the bill of sale from the vendor you bought it from showing what donor car it came from.
In regard to the car I am talking about there is nothing. No title, vin, etc regading what donor car the motor, trans, rear end came from. There is no paperwork regarding purchase of the body or any other part for that matter. The state wants to know what car the donor parts came from to insure I did not just go steal a pinto, and part it out to make the kit car. Even if I try to file through the circut court here as if I found the donor car abandoned on my property years ago with the VIN cut out of the dash and frame I still cannot get title. I must had an identifier for that car in order to title it.
I did look into going through another state like Vermont. The problem there is that they also want some sort of Vin for a donor and or kit body number. Without it there is a possibility I could still get a registration certificate from them and Mo will take it for title purposes BUT I still have to go back through the higway patrol here where they already told me will not pass it for licenseing.
That sounds ridiculous but certainly lives up to the “show-me” reputation while throwing a bucket of cold water on innovation and entrepreneurship yet keeping a few more bureaucrats on the dole.
I spent my youth scrounging around in junk yards and know that Johnny Cash’s “One Piece at a Time” surely wasn’t written about anyone from Missouri.
Sorry to hear of your dilemma…
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