Classic Car Insurance

[Rich Bellefeuille]

All,

I see that classic car insurance has been discussed previously, but all topics are closed and the last post was ~ 2 years ago. So, I’d like to resurrect it and get some current info. Any preferences? Hagerty?, Grundy?, others? Also, has anyone actually had to process a claim with any of these companies? Looks like as long as the car is not a daily rider, is garaged and you can prove that you have other daily driver vehicle(s) you are good to go. Last notes said $150 to $200 a year. Massachusetts is probably more, just ‘cuz it’s Massachusetts. Any info/experience would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[Paul Mossberg]

I checked the info in a couple of the closed threads. The companies I listed several years ago are all still  in business and the leaders in classic car insurance. They are listed below, with updated phone numbers and web sites as necessary.

I have two cars insured with American Collectors: http://www.americancollectorsins.com/

Total cost for the two cars is about $300 per per year and includes Comprehensive and Collision with $100 deductibles and $100/300/50 liability limits and all the required NJ no-fault and um insurance.

Thankfully I have never submitted a claim.

Other sources:

Grundy http://www.grundy.com

JC Taylor http://www.jctaylor.com

Heacock Insurance Group, P.O. Box 24807 Lakeland, FL 33802-4807, Direct Line for Customer Service: 800.274.1804 http://www.heacockclassic.com/site/

Hagerty Classic Insurance, Post Office Box 1303, Traverse City, Michigan 49685-1303 1.800.922.4050, http://www.hagerty.com

Editorial Note added 4/7/09: The above are all insurance agencies that specialize in antique and classic cars. See my post below for more detail on “insurance company” vs “insurance agency”.

PMOSSBERG39910.9854976852

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Rich Bellefeuille]

Paul,

Thanks, as usual you’ve come through with the details. Hopefully others will benefit from this update as well.

Rich

[Mark Hendrickson]

I’ve had a very bad experience with Grundy. The cancelled me after my Oct 2007 – Oct 2008 insurance year. I had been with them for over 10 years.

My personal opinion of Grundy is that they suck. What a bunch or morons! They are not an insurer, they are an Insurance Agency. They screwed me around and had lousy customer service.

Actually is was their new underwriter, Philadelphia Indemnity, that sent me a “Letter of Non-Renewal”. Grundy claimed they were going to get it corrected and it took them almost 4 months of jerking me around to tell me there was nothing they could do. I suspect that they didn’t want me cancel the policy before it lapsed.

Why did they cancel me? I put in two claims: one for a windshield and the other for radiator support damage done de-trailering my Mustang. Both claims totalled less than $1,200. They stated “violation of underwriting guidlelines” as the reason, but would not state exactly what that meant.

I requested Grundy, as my agent, find what the hell was going on…they dropped the ball, never returned calls or e-mails. Two days before my policy lapsed, they finally said they could do nothing.

The weird thing is that the day before Grundy told me this, I received their renewal bill in the mail. When I called, they claimed knew nothing about my situation and they supposedly been correcting it for the last 3 months!!! So, I said, “then I should pay this and my policy will be renewed?“. The agent said yes! About 10 minutes later, her boss called me and said, “sorry, we can’t renew your policy“.

Every time I watch My Classic Car, I change channels when the Grundy advertisement airs.

Now I have http://www.classicins.com/Default.aspx

Be sure you get an “AGREED VALUE” policy. Then if the car is destroyed, you get what you said it was worth on the policy. “STATED VALUE” you will not get the value of the car you listed on the policy if it’s destroyed.

I’ve also had JC Taylor (won’t insure kit cars) and Condon & Skelly in the past. They were both expensive. Keep in mind these companies are all merely agents that are underwritten by large insurance companies. It’s the larger companies that you deal with on claims and your agent doesn’t even get involved for the most part.

GOOD LUCK

Pink MG39910.7021412037

[Paul Mossberg]

A clarification…

ALL of the companies I included above are insurance agencies or brokers that specialize in classic cars (and other specialty risks).

They each have at least one insurance company with whom they place the insurance.

There are no direct writers that specialize in classic cars (a direct writer is a company like GEICO that does not use insurance agents)  There are some standard insurers that might write coverage for classics and antiques, but not at the low prices the specialty companies will charge.

In Mark’s situation, the agent, Grundy, should have been more helpful. While they represent the company to the public, they also have a responsibility to advocate for the insured. Grundy dropped the ball big time on Mark. And while one bad story may not represent the normal business operation, it is enough to make you shop elsewhere first. Especially since you have other options.

It will always be the insurance company’s decision to cancel, as Philadelphia Indemnity did to Mark. I agree they stiffed Mark. a couple small claims should not be enough grounds for cancellation. Again, Grundy should have stepped up and advocated for their client.

Ah well…too bad for them. They are one of the most well know agancies out there for classics. If they treat other clients as they treated Mark, they will remain well known…but for all the wrong reasons.

Mark wrote that JC Taylor will not handle kit cars. Their web site says they do. You have to click through the Specialty/Modified cars link. The info on this linked page includes kit cars and replicas on the list of eligible vehicles, but I have not called them for confirmation:

http://www.jctaylor.com/modified/products.html

Mark also mentioned Condon & Skelly. Here is their website and contact info:

http://www.condonskelly.com/web/PublicPages/Home.aspx

121 East Kings Highway, Suite 203

Maple Shade, NJ 08052
1-800 257-9496
PMOSSBERG39910.9916319444

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Paul Mossberg]

I pulled together all the companies from my and Mark’s notes below. I mentioned a few, then Mark mentioned two more. Then I added contact info. It was all getting hard to follow. So here is the list in one place:

American Collectors: http://www.americancollectorsins.com/

Grundy http://www.grundy.com

JC Taylor http://www.jctaylor.com

Heacock Insurance Group, P.O. Box 24807 Lakeland, FL 33802-4807, Direct Line for Customer Service: 800.274.1804 http://www.heacockclassic.com/site/

Hagerty Classic Insurance, Post Office Box 1303, Traverse City, Michigan 49685-1303 1.800.922.4050,

http://www.hagerty.com

Condon & Skelly

121 East Kings Highway, Suite 203

Maple Shade, NJ 08052

1-800 257-9496:

http://www.condonskelly.com/web/PublicPages/Home.aspx

Classic Auto Insurance agency
http://www.classicins.com/Default.aspx

PMOSSBERG40650.0207523148

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Mark Hendrickson]

Thanks Paul. You said what I meant without malice! I went with Grundy years ago because J.C. Taylor would not insure the first Pink MG. I am glad that J.C. Taylor have changed their policy.

The bad thing about classic car insurance agents is that when their “parent” company changes, as happened to me with Grundy, what they will insure may also change. All the time they insured me under their old comapny (CHUB), nothing was said about that Mustang. In fact, nothing was said for a year and a half about it when Philadelphia Indemnity took over. It was only when I submitted the claim that I got screwed.

A fellow car buddy with an older Porsche 911 had the same thing happen to him with Grundy. He put in a claim for a broken windshield and was not renewed. He had been with them almost 20 years.

[Paul Mossberg]

Since the insurance question came up again today, I checked and validated the web sites in my April 7 2009 post are still valid.

PMOSSBERG40650.0210185185

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Tom Colello]

Paul, I’d like to add another to that list. I have all my cars insured with ANPAC. American National Property and Casuality. They have a CHROME division which insures specialized cars like ours. I have a 71 Karman Ghia, a 65 VW Beetle and my 81 Allison insured with them. Agreed Value insurance and the premimums are compairable to the Haggerties and the others. No professional appraisal needed if the car value is under $25K. just your word and some pics. Fortunately I have not had to claim anything so I can’t speak for that portion of their company. CHROME is an acronym for Classic/Antique, Hot Rod/Street Rod, Replica/Assembled (Kit), Original, Modern Classic or Modified Classic, Exotic. If anyone is interested do an internet search for a local ANPAC rep.

Tom

[Paul Mossberg]

Here is ANPAC’s web site:

http://www.anpac.com/products/p_c/chrome/default.aspx

Nice. They either sponsor or are endorsed by National Hot Rod Association, SEMA and the Hot Rod Power Tour.

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[mike]

i have jc taylor thru farm bureau. $180 a year for a car valued at $5000.new policy so i cant say if they are good or bad . they do insure kit cars(mine).

[newkitman]

Being retired military I’m with USAA. The Ghia is with them as a daily driver. I’m on vacation in Wisconsin at the moment but will  check with them and see what they offer and post it.

Happy 4th of July folks. And if any of you have your TD in a parade……..photos please!   

Allen Caron
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The Shack

[Montie Henderson]

My insurance is with State Farm.  Not as a daily driver but no restriction for low milage either.  Had to get it apraised thur one of their approved apraisers and my agent took pictures of it to have on file.  About $300 a year for full coverage 18,500 replacement value.

Happy 4th to all..

[Paul Mossberg]

I wrote this in response to another thread. But I liked my own writing so much I am adding it to this Classic Car Insurance thread.

Insurance 101

To really understand what you are buying, you need to understand the difference between the value used to determine the price of your insurance and the actual coverage set forth in the policy.

Regardless of the terms used by the insurer?you MUST read the actual policy itself to determine how the company will settle a loss if your car is damaged.

Either term, ?Stated Value? or ?Agreed Value? may be used, and MIS-USED, to mean similar or very different things.

Let?s look at the price side first.

For a mass production vehicles, insurers know what the cost basis of the car is, and it is easy for them to rate it.

For our cars, there is no generally available reference. So the client and the insurer must ?agree? to a value.

The term “Stated Value” usually (but not always) refers to the value to be used to determine the price of your insurance. But I have also seen insurers use the ?Agreed Value? term to mean the same thing.

The bottom line is this point is meaningless in the pricing context. If you are happy with the premium?great! It does not matter what the insurer calls it.

BUT??let?s now look at what you bought. The Coverage in the Policy.

You may see the same terms used again in the policy. And you know what? It still does not matter!

You have to read the contract. ALL of it! Read the coverage language. And more importantly, read the Loss Settlement language.

In your normal policy?.if a vehicle is damaged and it is an insured loss, the settlement is always, ALWAYS on an “actual cash value” basis. This is referred to as ?ACV?. This means the insurer will pay the LESSER of:

• cost to repair the vehicle or
• the ACTUAL CASH VALUE of the vehicle at the time of the loss.

ACV means the DEPRECIATED value! The three year old car that you paid $30,000 for when it was new is no longer worth $30,000 and the insurer won’t pay you that amount!

You guys that have your kit car insured on your regular auto insurance, State Farm, Geico, whomever, I can almost guarantee you your policy is written as an ACV policy. If your TD replica is damaged or totaled, the insurer will rely on the above language to pay a depreciated amount, and it will be LESS than the ?Stated Amount? or the ?Agreed Value? used to price your policy.

Antiques, classic cars, collector cars normally do NOT depreciate. In fact they may increase in value. Specialty insurers know this. And they write insurance for you with COVERAGE that is based on an Agreed Value.

The Loss Settlement provisions will read something like this:

In the event of a loss, we (the insurer) will pay you the lesser of:

• The cost to repair the vehicle, or
• The Agreed Value stated in the policy declarations

You will NOT see the term ?actual cash value? or ?ACV? referenced in the policy. That is, the insurer will NOT depreciate  the value of your  TD. If they agreed to insure it for $10,000, and  the car is totalled, they will pay you $10,000.

I hope this is clear. But please ask questions and I will try to explain further.

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Mark Hendrickson]

Paul…as usual, you are the MAN!!!

I had Grundy for years and they sell only Agreed Value policies. The rep at Grundy told me that Stated Value in most cases is an “ACV” policy.

You are indeed correct that the “daily driver” companies do not offer Agreed Value policies and the bulk of them are “ACV” coverage.

I now use http://www.classicins.com for my ’40 Ford, ’69 Beetle and ’74 Beetle. The coverage is Agreed Value for all 3 vehicles and they offer different mileage limits (less mileage = less premium). My premium is just over $300 a year here in NJ.

[Marc Lipsius]

Interesting, I have spoken to Hagerty, AmericanCollectors (classicins), and Classic Auto Ins., and none of them will insure a car in Florida unless it is kept in a locked 4 wall garage or storage facility. Anpac doesn’t insure any of these in Florida, ie, is “not available”. My house is up on pilings as per the building code where I live, and the cars and motorcycles and everything else are parked very securely underneath, but unless I build a 4 walled lockable enclosure, I can’t get insurance form any of these companies, and in speaking to each of them, that is the policy for all of them in this state. So right now i cannot even get collision or theft or towing or any kind of damage insurance for my car other than liability. Like whenever there is a major storm coming I have to move all this stuff anyway. Do they really think I would abandon my TD as a sacrifice to a storm? I don’t even think the building code where I am would allow me to build something like that and the cost would be as much as the car.
I really don’t want to rent some sort of storage space and I think the car would be far less secure there, and I don’t want to drive 15 min to take my car out for a half hour-1hour ride.
Any other ideas?

mrlmd40763.6687962963

[Montie Henderson]

Paul, my State Farm policy declaration page has the words ” Vehicle value ” and then $18,500.   There is no ACV any place in the policy or dec. page.   I’ll check with my agent and make sure of what it actually means.    

I was at the British days car show Saturday, Farmers insurance was set up there in a booth trying too sell collector car insurance.  I don’t know anything about that company though.  Might be an option??? 

I didn’t show this time, we just took her out for the ride and walked around.  Had a few people remember Audrey from last year and wanted me to show her again but we were short on time.   Maybe next year.   Lots of nice cars again this year.   Most were pretty nice guys only one purest snob I ran accross, refered to mine as ‘oh one of those cheap kit cars’ till he walked by it, changed his tune then.   He had a nice TD but nothing special.

[Paul Mossberg]

Montie, et al…

The references to loss settlement will not be on your declarations page.

Somewhere in the actual insurance contract, the policy language, there HAS to be a provision that defines how losses will be settled.

I hate to send you back to the well Montie, but please go read the policy again.

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Montie Henderson]

Paul, I’ll let you move this to the thread on insurance.  I couldn’t find the one we were using. 

I went to my insurance agent last week to get some clarification on my coverage.  State Farm does have a antique/classic car policy.  I must have stired up something at their home office too.  Today I just got a updated letter, policy and declaration page from State Farm.   The “car value” listed on the declaration page is what I’m covered for in the event of a total loss.   The cars value is derived from a written apprasial which is required by them.  When I first bought Audrey and drove her to the agents office he took file photos and gave me a list of several appraisers in my area.  I did have to pay for the appraisal, most ran between $60 and $100.   All of them in my area were auto body shops that State Farm also recomended.    

Hopefully, I’ll never have to use it.    

[MGLondonRoadste]

Grundy is no longer an agent for classic or kit cars.  I tried to add my new car and was told to contact the insurance company directly.  Here’s their e-mail reply after I submitted a request online.

“Thank you for submitting your information to the Grundy Insurance
underwriting department. We regret that at this time we cannot accept
applications for collector car (only) policies in your State.  We wish
you the best in finding the appropriate coverage for this vehicle.

Respectfully,

GRUNDY INSURANCE

[Paul Mossberg]

---

http://www.grundy.com/IsGrundystillmyinsuranceAgency.aspx

Here is the full story:

Is Grundy Still my Insurance Agency?

As
of October 20, 2011, Philadelphia Insurance (PHLY) has assumed
administrative responsibilities of policies previously issued under the
name “Grundy Worldwide”? in all states except Massachusetts and South
Carolina.

In 48 states, PHLY has imposed a “non-compete”? on
Grundy Insurance at the current time, which prohibits us from writing
new Collector-Car-Only policies. We hope that in the future, the
non-compete is reversed, rescinded or expired. Until that time, we can
insure collector vehicles, but only in conjunction with other policies.

If
you want to take advantage of our expertise and legendary service,
please check out our two new, breakthrough insurance products. We believe these new programs will evolve to be the future standard of insuring all your vehicles.

The Programs

• The “MVP”? all-in-one policy offered through our Motor Vehicle Program

• Our
  “MVP”? policy offers you Agreed Value coverage on all of your motorized
  vehicles, including everything from daily driver and exotic specialty
  cars to motor homes and motorcycles.

To learn more, click here.

• The Special Collections policy, offered as part of our Special Client Services

• Our
  Special Collections policy insures everything that you collect from
  fine art, to auto collections, to coins, stamps, bronzes, guns and more.
  We understand that most collectors have many things that they collect,
  and we are proud to offer services to protect them all.

To learn more, click here.

Also, if you own a boat, we have expanded our Marine Insurance program to cover all types of boats from classic yachts and runabouts to modern yachts and raced sailboats.

To learn more, click here.

Paul Mossberg
Former Owner of a 1981 Classic Roadsters Ltd. Duchess (VW)
2005 Intermeccanica Roadster

If you own a TDr and are not in the Registry, please go to https://tdreplica.com/forums/topic/mg-td-replica-registry/ and register (you need to copy and paste the link)

[Rick]

Need some experiential input.

So I’m close to getting on the road so I need insurance.  I’ve read this thread several times and followed the advice given by calling a number of specialty insurers. 

But what each of them told me was that they basically only insure for show cars that are driven to shows and maybe on a sunny Sunday afternoon.  When I tell them I plan on driving mine every chance I get, and I live in Florida which means year round, they suggest I look elsewhere.

I’ve contacted my current carrier and fully explained that this will be a “daily driver” but I want to cover it with an Agreed Value and they are looking into it.  She did say before I hung up that in her 25 years of business she’s never had this type of request before…so I don’t have my hopes up.

So do you guys really only drive your cars like it’s a show car or do you just get the coverage and not worry about how many miles you put on it.   BTW…this is not a judgmental question I really am just trying to figure out the best approach.

[Larry Murphy]

 Most classic insurers have milege limits, my co . has a 3000 miles per year limit. My agent said not to worry,there are no odometer police.They do require the car to be stored in a totally enclosed locked building.The agent said their biggest fear is that the car will be stolen.This type insurance is MUCH cheaper than regular daily driver insurance.This is my personal opinion. I use my car often to make a trip to the pharmacy or fast food drive thru. I’ve never had a claim so I don’t know things would work out if something happened.

[edward ericson]

I’ve got Philadelphia, which took over my policy from Grundy.

The “usage endorsement” says I agree the car “Is not used for regular
driving to work, school, errands, shopping, general transportation,
secondary or back-up transportation, business or commercial purposes,
except for limited pleasure use.”

I asked the agent when I renewed this year to add a rider so I could drive to work on occasion. She said she’d check with the underwriters, put me on hold, then came back and said that it was already there. Presumably the word “regular” has some flexibility in it, as does “limited.” How that might shake out in the event of an accident, I don’t know.

I drove her to work on Thursday ’cause it was forecast to get into the 50s. Also because I’m taking the dashboard apart & so she won’t be fit to drive for a bit. On the way home, a brace of school girls on the corner started screaming when they saw the car. I stopped for a red light and was answering the questions of the pickup truck driver in the next lane when the girls–four of them–started jumping in my car. One sat right in the passenger seat. Another tried to get in behind her. All screaming they just had to get a ride in it.

I think my policy is 5,000 miles, and I don’t think I’ve yet exceeded 2,500 in a season. I’m paying  $114 a year for $6,000 value. Exclusions include damages from nuclear war, revolution, racing and using her as a livery vehicle.

I told the girls they would have to get out; I could not give them a lift up the block. They complied.

[greg press]

Just thought i would through my 2 cents in .I have Hagerity and i couldnt be more pleased.I broke down 5 times last year do to a problem with vapor lock. Hagerity was called every time. They got my car to a garage and me home .Its about 240 a year for the most expensive package towing included.The one time i broke down it was after 6 pm when garages are closed they brought it home and then picked it up the next day and took it to a garage no extra charge    

[Author]

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