August 24, 2010 at 6:00 pm #233091
I have run into a brick wall at the Florida DMV. I have a detailed Bill of Sale from the previous owner ( she was the third owner), then I completed the build, but I have NO paperwork at all from CMC/Fiberfab. So the DMV’s answer was that I need a COURT ORDER from a Judge in my county, stating that the kit car should be titled?
I have heard about some companies that can register your car for you. Has anyone used one? Does anyone know one in Florida?
The web shows a company called GNT Get New Title in Maine — Anyone know of them?
Thanks for your help — I would hate to think that this will just end up being a garage decoration.August 24, 2010 at 7:05 pm #242006Larry MurphyParticipant
Bill, If I remember correctly, Your car has been thru several owners but none of them completed the build and it has never been titled .Correct me if I am wrong about the above information. I understand that you have a detailed bill of sale from the previous owner, but I’m guessing that at least part of the problem is that you have no information as to where the car came from at the start. I think it’s called a ”statement of origin”. Rules vary from state to state and often depend on the mood of the DMV inspector and his personal interpretation of the rules. Hang in there , patience and persistance will eventually prevail.How about the Chevette that was used as a donor.?Do you know anyone in law enforcement who may be able to pull a string or at least guide you thru the jungle?. . Are there any identification numbers on the car? Search the internet for the Florida DMV as well as some unofficial sites for forms and additional info.Larry Murphy40414.8210185185August 24, 2010 at 8:16 pm #242007
Larry, Thanks for the comments. I am really the forth owner. The first owner ( I’ve been told) was a guy named Bill Kelly, who lived in New England somewhere when he bought the kit and then moved to Norcross ( or Duluth ) Georgia with the kit ( he had built it to a rolling Chassis state — but there is no paperwork on the donor car). He sold it in about 2003 to Roger Preston in Georgia. I’ve talked with him and he does not think he got any Cert of Origin or anything like that. At any rate he sold “EVERYTHING” to a woman who lived near him– in 2009 and she gave me all of the paperwork she got from him. NO actual lists from CMC or Fiberfab.
If anyone knows a Bill Kelly from New England or Georgia — I would like to try to talk with him.
I have talked with the President of the current Fiberfab– who said that his records only go back to about 2003.
What does the Cert of Origin look like — is it simply a receipt or some real official title type document?August 24, 2010 at 8:54 pm #242008Dan RosaParticipant
Bill the only MSO I have seen are from auto manufactures GM FORD HONDA ect they are an official document from the manufacturer looks like a state title ,with manufacturer vin.numbers ,weight .manufacture date,and class type , I am not sure what would be on a kit car MSO as the states are concerned I think the engine number and title for it or paper work from where bought from would be important. remember kit cars are not cars as far as states think until titled just a bunch of parts ,I have not found a frame number on mine only the state given number I don’t think ff put a number on there frames, were not required 30 years ago. my title says /custom manufactured/ year as date of first titled in Calf. 86 even though the kit was sold new in 1977 last registration before I got it was 86 Ca. good luck DanAugust 25, 2010 at 7:45 am #242009
Bill, I titled my car that was previously owned by two different owners and I believe I had a MSO from Fiberfab. It looks like an official document. If you need a copy I could probably find mine and send you a copy. Purchasing a kit car without all the documentation can cause some pain.August 25, 2010 at 2:57 pm #242010
Has anyone used or even contacted a company that helps you get a title?? The web lists GNT Get New Title —Any experiece with it or others??????August 25, 2010 at 3:38 pm #242011
I believe some owners of the Cobra community got in deep trouble with a company years ago relative to title washing. Be careful you could get yourself in big trouble. I have no direct experience however. I believe going up the chain at the RMV would better option since you seem to have a clear chain of custody.August 25, 2010 at 4:10 pm #242012Larry MurphyParticipant
I pulled up the Maine DMV website and the application form to apply for title. It required a Maine address, if I looked at it correctly. That could explain the 45-90 day delay that GTN mentions as it may need to be titled in a person’s name in Maine and then transfered to the proper owner. What would happen if they did not follow thru and instead claimed ownership?? Also, you could do a lot of leg work for the $395 plus that is the starting fee. BE VERY CAREFUL!!!! Also they say in some cases they can only get a certificate of registration which ”YOU” can use to get the actual title.
Have you searched titles and also registration on this forum? You can see that others have had problems and how they were resolved.August 26, 2010 at 2:01 pm #242013edward ericsonParticipant
Might try a judge in your county. Just go to circuit court and ask the clerk. Court clerks are helpful, and sometimes they like a challenge. In my experience, they’re always glad to deal with someone who isn’t a belligerent criminal or a angry recent divorcee pissed about how much his wife got for her and the kids. Your problem might interest them.
Re the Cobra problem– that was a big deal in CA about 10-15 years ago. Some sheriff’s deputy actually did a couple years in the stir. The deal was they were getting around CA license and tax laws with the old “it’s-just-an-ordinary-’64-Ford” ploy. Someone just rehashed the details over on the Speedster forum. I don’t think it’s relevent to those of us with $3,500 cars (instead of $35,000 Cobras).
That GNT thing sounds like a scam. Even if they’re on the up & up in terms of getting you the Maine paperwork, you’d be paying a lot for something that was, at base, fraudulent.
Another option is to talk to a used car dealer–or better yet a salvage dealer. Find a junk yard and make friends with the proprietor (you’ll be needing his services anyway!) Tell him your problem & see if he’ll tell you some of the ins and outs of the salvage title process. You’ve got a re-bodied Chevette, right? The VIN from that should get you in the door….August 27, 2010 at 10:51 am #242014Mark HendricksonParticipant
The Cobra titling incident that Ed is talking about was a company called Titles Unlimited. The guy was in Georgia. I used them to “title” an unbuilt Ford based TD replica…just before he was arrested for the CA sales tax fraud. The first question he asked, “It isn’t a Cobra is it?”
Here’s how the “titling” worked. He sent me a form to complete and have notarized that “sold” him my car. He had that notarized in Alabama. Then he got an Alabama registration for it. Alabama didn’t title cars older than 1975. So, other states would use the Alabama registration to transfer to a valid title of ownership.
I took the Alabama registration and notarized hand written bill of sale he returned to me to NJMVC and got it transferred to a valid NJ Title. It was titled as a 1952 MG TD. I had to pay the NJ sales tax on the amount he “sold” me the car back for and the NJMVC title fee.
I paid Titles Unlimited a fee for this “service”.
There was also a guy in New Hampshire that did a similar “service”, but I think he closed up shop.
You’ve got a real debacle on your hands…dealing with the government bureaucracy to get some action. Good Luck.September 24, 2010 at 9:44 pm #242015Daniel ForeParticipant
BillsFlorida I have run in almost the same problem I bought
a daytona MiGi from a guy in GA he had no paperwork so i
had him fill out a bill of sale and SC dmv say’s i have to
have a title or a registration for the car before i can get
it on the road here in SC anyone know what i could doSeptember 24, 2010 at 10:47 pm #242016
Is you car on a VW chassis? If so you might be able to get a VW Birth Certificate with the VIN.The Birth CertificatE is similar to a MSO that show when and where the car was manufactured and when and where it was shipped to in the US. For instance, the Birth Certificate for my Karmann Ghia I restored showed it was built on Dec 5th 1973 and shipped to NY, NY on Dec. 7, 1973. And in GA if you register the car with the VW VIN you need only a bill of sale for the chassis. I’ve found that I can register my CMC FiberFab as a VW kit car, just like registering a dune buggy.
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackSeptember 25, 2010 at 2:29 pm #242017
Junkman — In Florida — I need to have a court order to direct the DMV to title the car even though the MCO ( or MSO) is lost. I have moved forward with the civil law suit against the DMV to get the court order. The filing fee was $400. and $40 more for the Sheriff to serve the papers on the DMV. Now I have to wait 20 days — if the DMV does not object ( I am led to believe that they will not), then the Judge will read my complaint and IF he agrees — he will direct the DMV to issue the title. Then, I will file for the title using the court order as authority, take it to be inspected and then IF EVERYTHING IS FINE — I should get a title , registration and plate –after paying the normal fees of 7% tax plus about $300 in title , registration and plate fees.
I hope to be driving it by the end of October.
I did trailer it to a show and won second place in the OTHER catagory.
Good luck to you — maybe SC is like Florida –or maybe — the VW chassis thing might work.September 25, 2010 at 2:38 pm #242018Daniel ForeParticipant
thanks billsflorida i cant find the vin # of the chassis i
looked under the seat cant find it anywhereSeptember 25, 2010 at 4:57 pm #242019
It wont be under the seat. The VIN will be stamped on the tunnel just in front of the rear acces panel for the shift lever. It’s more than likely under a piece of carpet.
VW based 53MGTD - "MoneyPenny"
"If one thing matters, everything matters" - from the book The ShackSeptember 26, 2010 at 4:39 am #242020
Well done billflorida for following thru with the title headache issue. Sounds like a good approach.September 27, 2010 at 8:37 am #242021Mel ZeigerParticipant
glad to hear that you found a way to get a title. We need more TD’s in Florida.October 14, 2010 at 12:40 pm #242022
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